I think they call it "re-purposing". I couldn't be bothered to write a whole new blog about Forest's match at Ipswich 40 years ago - Trevor Francis' full Forest debut, so I just bolted on an extra bit to the previous blog. After all, I posted the previous blog the day after Forest beat Derby so it kind of got swamped. Maybe this one will get a little more attention.
So, as I was saying last time...
All good things come to an end and 40 years ago it was another of Forest's amazing unbeaten sequences: our run of 49 home matches in all competitions. Who breached the City Ground fortress? Appropriately, perhaps, it was The Gunners.
There was a lot of stuff going on around at that time and so this post is quite a mixed bag. Forest beat York City 3-1 in the F.A. Cup 4th Round on a white, snow-covered, pitch with an orange ball, so I pay tribute to club from the Yorkshire capital and their pretty impressive giant-killing exploits in the cup before their recent sad demise - currently in step 2 of the football league pyramid, one division below the conference.
As the Nottingham University football Supporters club got into full swing (at least I think it did by this time), we organised a coach to Wembley to watch England beat Northern Ireland 4-0 in the European championship qualifier. The only Forest player on the pitch that night was Martin O'Neill and, as I'm still buzzing like a six year old on Christmas morning about Martin the Messiah returning to the City Ground, I'll take a look at his international career and the 13 and a half years he was Forest's most capped player, some of which was while his playing career continued elsewhere after leaving Forest. I also discuss his earliest days in management.
It was also around this time that Forest broke the bank and the UK transfer record when they bought Trevor Francis for £1.15m. I look at the incredible contrast in Clough/Taylor's involvement in the transfer market 40 years ago (zero signings in 400 days as league champions) compared to today (31 signings, spending £25m, as a middle of the table second tier side).
Being Martin O'Neill's biggest fan (I witnessed two spells of his football wizardry) I couldn't resist a few comparisons between him and Francis - especially as everyone (me included) imagined that O'Neill would be the player to make way for the star signing. That turns out to be a myth and Martin's record, as always, seems to compare favourably, with anyone's - even George Best's (at least it does for Northern Ireland.)
In between all this I keep up with goings on in the league including Forest's 3-1 win at Ayresome Park, Middlesbrough, a defeat at Highbury and trips to Highfield Road and Filbert Street.
Previously: Watford in the League Cup
The England squad was announced for the forthcoming European Championship Qualifier against Northern Ireland. There was no place for Trevor Francis - or Peter Shilton, Tony Woodcock or Viv Anderson so Martin O'Neill would be the only Forest player on the pitch.
In the midst of all this excitement, we got ready for more cup football on Trentside and the return of York City.
So here's a potted history of the famous old club.
York City missed out on the chance to join the football league when it was expanded in 1922. Division Three North ran for eight seasons before, at last, the club were admitted in place of Ashington, in 1929. Their first league match was away to Wigan Borough on 31st August 1929 where they won 2-0.
York established themselves as decent side in the league but would never challenge for the one promotion slot.
City moved across town to a new ground, Bootham Crescent at the start of the 1932-33 season but it was not a happy move as the club finished 3rd from bottom that season.
In 1936, York City suffered their record defeat - 12-0 at Chester.
The most notable season between the wars, though, was 1937-38 when they had a very impressive F.A. Cup run, only losing to Huddersfield Town in a quarter final replay at Leeds Road.
Middlesbrough finished 5th in the First Division that season, so their 5th round scalp was much prized.
The Quarter final clash against first Division One side, Huddersfield Town (still famous for their three successive titles in the 1920s but by then, struggling somewhat, in 15th place in 1938), is still the record attendance at Bootham Crescent, 28,123. Here is some classic Pathe footage of the tie after a rather spiffing report of the Spurs match against Sunderland... Hurrah!!
The game ended 0-0 and so it had to go to a replay.
During these times, York City played in red shirts and not the claret that I and many fans will associate with them.
So, to summarise... in the entire history of the two clubs, there has only been one season when York City finished above Forest in the league: Forest 115 York 1 !!
Match 301, Saturday 27th January 1979: F. A. Cup 4th Round...
Martin O'Neill is upper most in my mind at the moment and, of course, 40 years ago he was instrumental in the victory, setting up Larry Lloyd and scoring one himself.
So, this was the 5th meeting of the two clubs and, as one would expect, Forest had the upper hand, although probably not as much of an upper hand as we would have expected.
I'll return to York later in this post to see how they've done since 1979 but suffice to say here, that this was the last time Forest played them in a competitive match.
Here are some highlights of the round...
The big shock of the round was Shrewsbury Town's victory against Manchester City ... David Coleman was the commentator.
Arsenal beat Notts County 2-0. Barry Davies provided the commentary on BBC...
Here's WBA v Leeds...
And Ipswich v Orient
And Newcastle v Wolves.
Here's action from Craven Cottage, Brian Moore commentating, of Fulham v Manchester United
The week following, Forest secured their return to Wembley for the League Cup final by drawing 0-0 at Vicarage Road, Watford. I covered all about Watford and Elton John in my last blog post.
On Thursday 1st February, Wrexham beat Stockport 6-2 in the final tie of the F.A. Cup 3rd round - a match that had been postponed no fewer than NINE times.
The big match was Liverpool's 2-1 victory over the previous league leaders, West Bromwich Albion, to regain the leadership.
The Forest match was televised...
Here are the highlights of Manchester City's return to form including a brilliant performance from Peter Barnes at White Hart Lane...
Frustratingly, I couldn't find any footage of the top of the table clash, but here's the report in Guardian...
So, Liverpool found themselves back on top...
Robbo's goal kept him as Forest's top scorer again.
The current form (last 3 home/away) table was now headed by Leeds United.
The composite 1977-79 table was still being lead by Forest, thanks to our win at Ayresome Park.
Another bizarre point on the signing from the perspective of today is simply how quiet the market was in those days, especially from Forest's the point of view.
There we were, on 7th February 1979, and Forest had not signed a single new player since David Needham in the middle of December 1977. Forest were first division champions, remember, with two managers who were reputedly not shy of dipping in the transfer market. But they had not "dipped' for over 400 days.
Contrast that with Forest today...
As I write this, in the last 400 days, Forest have made at least THIRTY-ONE signings in the same timescale...
A conservative estimate of Forest's recent outlay is about 25 million pounds - which is about 5 million in 1979 terms (accounting for inflation.) And this, remember, is for a side that is essentially a mid table second tier side, not the first division champions, like Forest were forty years ago.
Contrast that with today: The current champions, Manchester City, have spent around around 35 times as much as Forest have in the last three transfer windows.
Francis could play as an out and out striker, so Garry Birtles and Tony Woodcock might have been a little concerned, but another player, Martin O'Neill - Forest's new manager today - must have also been a little concerned, as a right-sided attacking midfielder, especially as he'd never got on with Brian Clough as well as many of the squad.
It's ironic, then, that in the week Trevor Francis was being snaffled by Clough & Taylor, I went to Wembley with the Nottingham University Football Supporters Club, to watch Martin O'Neill make his 28th cap for Northern Ireland against England in the European Championship qualifier.
Martin had a great first season with Distillery, helping them reach the Irish Cup final, where they beat Derry City 3-0 in April 1971. The 19 year old scored twice, the second of which was compared to a goal Puskas had scored a few years before..
Martin only made seven appearances for Lisburn Distillery (according to Wikipedia) but he scored three goals.
Having won the Irish Cup, Distillery qualified for Europe, in the Cup Winners Cup.
Who did they draw? Only Barcelona!
It goes without saying that Barcelona won but Martin O'Neill managed to get on the score sheet with an apparently, brilliant goal.
This is how it was described by Dawson Simpson, Distillery's historian...
‘The 77th minute saw 19-year-old Martin O’Neill produce a moment of sheer magic. He tried a one-two with Martin Donnelly, but the return pass was played behind him. Somehow O’Neill managed to stretch back, drag it forward and strike it in one swift, stunning movement, and it rocketed off the base of the post with the keeper staring in disbelief. It was a real masterpiece.’
Martin had started at Queen's by now but had decided that he would leave if a good offer came in from a good professional football club.
An offer did come in a few weeks later, but only from Terry Neill the Northern Ireland manager - for his first international cap.
Of all people, Martin basically replaced George Best, at the time 25 years old and at the peak of his career. Apparently, Best had had a bit of a fall out with the manager, having won 20 caps for his country at that point. Martin came on as a substitute for Bryan Hamilton. The game ended in 1-1 draw in front of 16,573.
George Best would make up later and end up get another 17 call ups for Northern Ireland, reaching 37 in total. Best and O'Neill's international careers would overlap for six years but as far as I can gather, they only made a couple of starts together in the same team.
The first time this happened was on 14th November 1973. Manager Terry Neill actually selected three Forest players in the same team as George Best. Tommy Jackson made his 15th cap, Liam O'Kane won his 9th (and scored their only goal) and Martin was on his 4th.
The second time, now under Danny Blanchflower, was four years later, as Best returned from a couple of years absence, perhaps feeling he should give a little back to his roots.
O'Neill made his debut at home West Bromwich Albion on November 13th 1971, coming on as a substitute - ironically for for Barry Lyons (the guy who played for York City in the cup, remember.)
Forest won 4-1 in front of 20,024 and Martin got on the score sheet along with three other Forest heroes, Duncan McKenzie, Ian Storey-Moore and Paul Richardson.
I didn't see that game but Martin must have done enough to impress manager Matt Gillies as he was selected to start in Forest's next match, away to Newcastle United. Forest lost 1-0.
The next game though, his third, I did see. Martin's full home league debut was against league leaders Leeds United, which Forest lost 0-2.
Forest were relegated at the end of that season, with Martin O'Neill making 10 appearances, with 7 as substitute. He scored two goals. I saw four of them. He also won a further two caps for Northern Ireland.
I didn't go to any Forest games in the 1972-73 season, so I missed all of his 31 league appearances (+ 4 as sub). Martin was joint top scorer that season, along with Duncan McKenzie - they both only got the paltry total of six goals, though. O'Neill made a further two appearances in the cup (one in each competition). Martin won his 8th cap for Northern Ireland.
The next season was the one I became mesmerized by Duncan McKenzie's dribbling against Manchester City and became a fully-fledged Forest fan. Martin O'Neill only made 25 league appearances (+ 2 subs) in the 1973-74 season as manager Allan Brown wasn't his biggest fan, it seems. Bizarrely, I didn't see any of the league games. He only scored one goal, at home to Swindon Town. Martin was picked for both League Cup games, and four in the F.A. Cup run. I did see three of those. Martin won four more caps for Northern Ireland that season.
In 1974-75, Martin made ten league appearances and 2 in the League Cup under Allan Brown, scoring one goal, before Brown was sacked after the Boxing Day home defeat to Notts County. Under new manager, Brian Clough, O'Neill made a further six league appearances and four in the cup, including their famous 1-0 win at White Hart Lane in Cloughie's first match and three games against Fulham. I saw 12 of his appearances. Martin another four caps for his country.
In Cloughie's first full season in charge, Martin O'Neill made 29 starts in the league and one as substitute, taking him over 100 league appearances for Forest. Ironically the match that reached that landmark was against his favourite team as a boy, Sunderland. O'Neill scored five goals in the league that season. He made two appearances in the League Cup but none in the F.A. Cup. Martin won one more cap for Northern Ireland.
In Forest's promotion season O'Neill made 38 league appearances and two as substitute. He scored 9 league goals. He also scored two goals in the League Cup, playing in both games. Martin played in all five F.A. Cup ties. Martin won just two more caps that season.
In Forest's glorious return back to the top flight, in 1977-78, Martin O'Neill (now 25) made another 38 starts in the league with 2 as substitute and scored eight goals. He was an ever present in the League Cup run - that is playing in all eight games, and scoring three. He also played in all six in the F.A. Cup run, scoring twice, including the famous last minute equaliser at Loftus Road that kept our audacious hopes of the treble alive a little longer.
On 12th October 1977, just after our 0-0 draw at West Ham United, Martin O'Neill was picked to play Holland in a World Cup qualifier in Belfast. It was his 21st cap and, as such, took him ahead of Liam O'Kane as Forest's (then) most capped player. By the end of the season he'd added a further three, taking his tally to 24.
So, to bring us up to date in this blog post... Martin had made a further 15 league appearances so far this season, taking his Forest career total to 195. He'd scored another four goals taking his overall tally for Forest to 36. He'd played in five of the seven league cup ties, scoring once. Martin hadn't yet played in Europe, so overall O'Neill had now made 235 appearances for Forest in all competitions scoring 41 goals.
As we prepared to travel down from Nottingham to watch Northern Ireland play England at Wembley, I had no idea that this would be his 28th cap, taking him well ahead of the other capped Forest players in Forest's long history.
303rd match - Wednesday 7th February 1979, England 4 Northern Ireland 0 (8th time at Wembley, 3rd Full England match)
The "Official" Nottingham University Football Supporters Club was (probably) going by now and perhaps our first official trip was hiring a bus to Wembley to watch England play Northern Ireland in a European Championship qualifier.
And here's the match report...
So, a poor result for Northern Ireland, but another landmark for O'Neill as he gained his 28th cap, his 27th whilst at Forest.
Here's a list of all the players who had won international caps whilst playing for Forest at that time. Martin was already clear by a mile.
The result put England top of Group One (just) but with a game in hand...
I, needles to say, didn't know anything about this match - or I would have gone - but instead, we had another of our (not so) crazy football trips. This time, because of the influence of Jake, our Spurs mate, we went to Coventry City to watch them play at Highfield Road.
Birmingham lost their first game without Trevor Francis 0-1 at home to Leeds United.
Here are the highlight so that match....
Probably the biggest match of the day was at Goodison Park where Everton beat Bristol City 4-1 to leap to the top of the table.
Mancunians might dispute that, though, because it was also the day of the Manchester derby where United beat City 3-0.
So this was the first division table that night with Everton, unusually, sitting on top.
In midweek there were two more big first division games.
Liverpool inflicted the second 1-0 defeat in four days on Birmingham City to take them back to the top of the league and Arsenal won 2-1 at Loftus Road to move into second place. Interestingly, Forest now had four games in hand over Arsenal. Four wins could, theoretically, take them into second place themselves.
The next day, Ipswich made the football headlines as they signed their second Dutchman, Frans Thijssen.
And so our attention turned, once more to the F.A. Cup, and Forest's tasty-looking 5th Round tie at home to Arsenal. Trevor Francis would be unavailable as he was cup-tied, having played in Birmingham's third round defeat at home to Burnley on 9th January.
But when the day arrived, once again, the game was called off. In fact, for the first time in F.A. Cup history, all eight 5th Round ties had to be postponed. Only five English league games were actually played that day. At least the pools panel thought Forest would beat Arsenal!
So, what to do? There was always Filbert Street's hot air balloon, so that was the destination for me.
Match 306: Saturday 24th February. Francis' First Appearance for Forest ~
The Observer's report (see below) notes how Francis was tasked with collecting the track suit tops of the other Forest players before the game (That'll teach him, eh Brian!?) and how when he finally did come on, the reaction from the Forest fans was somewhat mixed.
Apart from Francis on the bench, the team was pretty much as expected.
Nottingham Forest
So, two days later, another trundle daan the City Graaaan. Another big crowd of almost 36,000 turned up to see if this could be Forest's year for the F.A. Cup. Again, very faint memories only - I think I went in the Trent End and I think Stapleton's goal was in front of us in the second half.
I have blurry memories of Martin O'Neill playing out of his skin too - obviously keen to impress Clough and Taylor that when it came to effort he could out-do the new million pound man.
Forest were unlucky on the night to lose but this seemed to be our destiny in the F.A. Cup - the one trophy Brian Clough would never win.
And so endeth the run...
Following the trend this season, the 5th Round of the F.A. Cup - just eight ties, remember, took 19 days to complete. Not one was played on the original Saturday set aside for the round.
So that was another Cloughie F.A. Cup dream shattered.
Other results...
The Essex outfit piled on a lot of pressure before a single Jimmy Greenoff goal sent the Red Devils through...
In other matches, Ipswich slammed Bristol Rovers for six, Liverpool brushed Burnley aside at Anfield, Wolves won at Selhurst Park and Spurs won at Boundary Park, sealing four more First division places in the quarter finals against second division opposition. The only other all-first division clash, between Southampon and West Brom, went to the Saints after a replay.
The final tie, between Third Division leaders, Shrewsbury Town and Fourth Division promotion chasers, Aldershot Town, went the way of "The Darwinists" (They're not really called that, of course, but I think the home of Charles Darwin should be celebrated by local football club somehow) thus guaranteeing at least one of the last eight were not from the top flight.
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Here are the highlights of their incredible win against Spain...
Northern Ireland then won the right to play two more games, against Austria and France in the next qualifying group.
Alas, it wasn't to be as they lost 4-1 to France. Here are the highlights of that match...
.
France were knocked out in the semi finals by West Germany who would, famously, lose 3-1 to the great Italy side which starred Paulo Rossi. England, of course, were gallantly unsuccessful - the only team to go through the tournament undefeated but were eliminated in the second group stage because they could only draw 0-0 with both hosts Spain and West Germany.
O'Neill would keep his place in the squad for another two years after that World Cup pinnacle but the side would never reach those heights again. He won his last eight caps whilst playing for Forest's most local rivals, Notts County - but most of his 64 caps (36 of them) were won whilst playing for Forest.
There was still about another two years of Martin's time at Forest, and I plan to cover most of that next season when looking at Forest's retention of the European Cup, but I think it's perhaps a pertinent time to report on how O'Neill was unceremoniously sent on his way in February 1981, Cloughie having agreed a fee (of £264,000 - a profit to Forest of £239,000) from Norwich City for him. After ten years at the club, O'Neill was approaching 300 league appearances but it was a landmark he wouldn't reach. His last game for Forest was a 3-1 win at home, ironically, to Arsenal. As if to further question Brian's intellect, O'Neill scored two goals that day.
I went to that game, as indeed I did most of his games. So although I missed his first appearance, I saw his third, his last, and almost 80% of the games in between.
So, as we stand today (21st February 2019) Martin O'Neill is the 18th most capped player for Northern Ireland, a long way behind Pat Jennings, but well ahead of George Best!
Martin O'Neill made over 430 league appearances for five clubs in a club career that spanned 13 years.
I saw all but two of Martin O'Neill's 48 goals for Forest - 96% of them!
Starting to think his days in football were over, Martin decided to get involved with an insurance company as a salesman and was doing pretty well at it. He even got a job for his mate, John Robertson at the same firm, at one point, before he got finally a break and someone decided to give him a go at managing a football team.
His name was Tony Balfe and he'd just taken over as chairman at Grantham F.C. who were then in step three of the football league pyramid, the Beazer Homes League Midland division. O'Neill was confident he could get the club into the Conference and he got the job. I can't think how he wouldn't, if one is to believe Tony Balfe's story that he was a Forest fan and O'Neill was one of his idols.
Despite getting help from ex-team mates, like John Robertson, Ian Bowyer, Kenny Burns and Terry Curran, O'Neill wasn't able to get Grantham Town promoted in his first season.
Frustratingly, Grantham Town missed out by just one point to the Birmingham club, Moor Green, the club that recently rose out of a kind of merger with Solihull Borough to form Solihull Moors, who currently (as of 21st February 2019) top the Conference.
Football, at this level, is a bit like the wild west, with players being "tapped" left right and center. Grantham were accused of doing that by signing Gary Crosby from Lincoln United. Gary would go on to an exciting, if short career with Nottingham Forest.
Slight diversion here... Crosby is famous for his cheeky goal against Manchester City in Forest's 1-0 win at the City Ground on 3rd March 1990, when he headed the ball from out of goalkeeper Andy Dibble's (single) hand and knocked the ball into an empty net.
Here's the incident with classic comments on it from Howard Kendall, Gary Lineker, George Courtney and ... Jimmy Greaves. Lavely!!!
Anyway, the (alleged) "tapping" worked both ways, though, and a key player in Grantham's side, Glenn Beech was picked up by nearby Boston United, then of the Conference and Grantham couldn't afford a decent replacement for him. So, Grantham never quite reached the heights of O'Neill's first season in their second.
Things turned sour at Grantham before the end of that second season as the budget for the next was being discussed, Martin tried to persuade chairman Tony Balfe to put in more money for a push for promotion. Basically, Balfe said "no". O'Neill left the meeting in a bit of a grump and, thinking O'Neill was about to resign, Balfe put an advert in the paper for his job. Martin did not take too kindly to that and so decided to leave, still thinking that Balfe really did have the money but was just being mean.
Still, despite not winning promotion at Grantham, the signs were there for all to see that O'Neill knew what he was doing. A 68.5% points ratio (Played 84, Won 50, Drawn 15 lost 19) is pretty good by anyone's reckoning.
Meanwhile, just 30 or so miles west of Grantham, in Shepshed, was another small midlands club who were having ambitious plans of reaching the Conference themselves. They had another wealthy (wealthier than Balfe, it would seem) flamboyant, chairman called Maurice Clayton - plus they had been managed by a former Forest team mate of Martin's Ian Story-Moore.
So, in July 1989, Martin O'Neill became the manager of Shepshed Charterhouse (now called "Dynamo"), a team that were, technically, a level above Grantham Town in the football league pyramid. Grantham were in the midland division of the southern league (step 3), while Shepshed were in the Northern Premier League itself, step 2 - although they were struggling.
Martin only stayed in the job four months. Strangely, for O'Neill's reputation today, it seems he was sacked for not committing 100% to the club as he had continued to work in the field of insurance. It might seem bizarre from today's perspective, but Martin had hardly been swept off his feet with football management job offers and, being a sensible chap, he wanted to work hard and earn more money.
More fool Shepshed... and Grantham, I say.
Still, it was only another four months after that when Alan Parry got him to head south to High Wycombe to manage the then famous non-league side, Wycombe Wanderers in February 1990.
How that happened was another strange story. O'Neill bumped into Parry one night in a gents' at Carrow Road. Parry was commentating on a match and O'Neill was there as a revered spectator.
Whilst taking a leak, they chatted. Coincidentally, Wycombe Wanderers were looking for a new manager and were holding interviews that day. Martin expressed his frustration that he didn't know about it so Alan Parry promised to get in touch with chairman Ivor Beeks to see if there was a chance they'd interview O'Neill.
Beeks told Parry that they'd already made an offer to Kenny Swain and he'd accepted, so that seemed to be the end of that.
However, just hours later, Swain having returned to his then current club, Crewe Alexandra and told them of his intention to leave, was offered a position as assistant manager. So Swain called Wycombe to tell them he'd changed his mind.
So, the door was re-opened and Martin was interviewed and won the club over. Apparently O'Neill was paid one of the highest salaries for a non-league manager at the time, some £25,000 per year.
As a "member" at Wycombe Wanderers during Martin's time there, I'd often bump into Alan Parry and even went to his house once because he wanted me to do a database for him. Unfortunately he was a Apple Mac user and at the time there were limited options there (for me, anyway) as I'm a Microsoft Windows Access/SQL Server guy. Still, Parry always impressed me greatly. He is the only other person (than myself) that I know of, that owns every Rothmans Football Yearbook!
The rest, as they say, is history and as it's been covered very well elsewhere, I'll skip the rest of the Martin O'Neill management story.
I think my self very privileged to have witnessed most (78.9%, 225 out of 285) of Martin's playing career at Forest (and all but two of his 48 goals), but also the real start of his managerial career at Wycombe Wanderers.
Suffice it to report this summary again which shows that O'Neill's management record has been consistently better than almost all of Forest's best throughout their history.
Like the journalists we saw earlier, the editors of the Ipswich Town programme also seem to have decided that Francis would be playing and who he'd be replacing...
... but, as it happened, it would be Tony Woodcock who made way, and Martin O'Neill started alongside Francis. This, in fact would be a recurring pattern. It happened another 12 times in the rest of that season, and 26 (17 League, 4 League Cup, 1 F.A. Cup and 4 European Cup) games in 1979-80. In fact Martin O'Neill and Trevor Francis were part of the same squad for more than the next two years.
Here's the match report...
And here are the highlights...
Liverpool slipped up by not winning at strugglers, Chelsea, so Everton were able to close the gap at the top to just two points
Here are the highlights of Liverpool's 0-0 draw at Stamford Bridge...
And here is Manchester City beating Bolton 2-1...
So, the table at the end of the day looked like this...
Garry Birtles' goal put him joint 3rd in the first division top scorers' chart.
Forest were now 4th in current form table...
And they kept in touch with Liverpool in the composite 1977-79 table.
Obvious I don't want to steal the thunder of a key report or two about Trevor's time at Forest 40 years ago but it might be a good point to pay tribute to a long career, where he made 627 appearances and scored 232 goals.
If we fast forward to 1981, it was only seven months after Martin's exodus from club that Trevor Francis was sold too. In his last home game for us Francis, like O'Neill, scored two goals. He got both in Forest's 2-1 win in the season opener against Southampton.
Altogether, Trevor Francis only made 70 appearances for Forest (scoring 28 goals) compared to Martin O'Neill's 285. Francis was at Forest for 941 days (just over 2.5 years) and for 79% of that time, Martin O'Neill was there too.
Francis was sold - ironically to Manchester City (for £1,200,000 so Forest did make a profit), where he made his debut alongside... none other than Martin O'Neill!! Francis again scored two that day, in a 3-1 win at Stoke City. The two would play in the same team five more times in the league and once more in the League Cup before Martin O'Neill left the club to return to Norwich City. Francis left at the end of the season too, heading for Italy, where he would play for the next five years. Francis made 68 appearances for Sampdoria and Atalanta.
After this, Francis came back to the UK and made 18 more appearances for Glasgow Rangers, having been signed by Graeme Souness, but Francis did not score a single goal.
After a brief trip down under, where he made three appearances for Wollongong City (not Wolves in those days), Francis returned to England for a career swansong at QPR (32 appearances and 12 goals) and then, last of all, at Sheffield Wednesday (76 appearances and 5 goals.)
Here's a summary of Francis' long league career...
I know that when it comes to his electrifying pace and goal scoring record, Martin O'Neill can't be compared with Trevor Francis. But their careers overlapped so closely I think statistical comparisons can, and indeed should, be made.
In terms of matches played and goals scored, Trevor Francis had a better, and more varied career than Martin O'Neill. His tally of 627 (league) appearances is 44% more than Martin's 435. This is probably largely because Francis started playing professionally earlier (at the age of 16, rather than 19) and finished later (at 40 rather than 33.)
Here are some more numbers: These figures (to a large extent) also include cup matches. I always find it frustrating that most player stat totals only seem to include league matches, making it tedious to go and manually find and add in the cup games. I have tried to do so below where I can (certainly for Martin O'Neill's record) but I couldn't find similar data for Francis when overseas, so these figures are not 100% correct.
.. and here's a chart plotting their two most impressive club careers next to each other.
Despite this longevity, Trevor Francis only made 52 appearances for England, compared to O'Neill's 64.
Of course, although it sounds a bit mean to say so, getting capped for England has to be more of an achievement than getting capped for Northern Ireland.
Stuart Pearce overtook Martin, as Forest's most capped player (whilst playing for the club) on 25th May 1991 when he was picked to play Argentina in a friendly (well it was called the "England Challenge Cup" but I don't think anyone was fooled). This took him to 37 caps (all of them at Forest at the time) and so ended Martin O'Neill's reign at the top of the table, which had lasted for over 13 and a half years, since Martin himself took the spot from Liam O'Kane.
Of course the stat most Forest fans will be interested in is the comparison of their appearances for the club. In that regard... no contest. O'Neill wins. What a sound investment for the club too! Forest spent £25,000 on O'Neill and received £264,000, compared to Francis - spent £1,150,000 received £1,200,000.
Now after all this debate of international caps and million pound signings... let's not forget York City.
For York City, things didn't get better in the years after this cup defeat in 1979. In just two years, they finished rock-bottom of the whole football league, but they did recover a few years after that, and had a very impressive season in 193-84 when they won the fourth tier title by a massive 16 points.
For a couple of seasons, York challenged towards the top of the third tier before they started to slip back again. In 1987-88 they were relegated back to the fourth tier again.
City’s last hurrah in the Football League was to reach the Fourth division playoff final in 1992/93. This was York City's first ever visit to Wembley Stadium where they beat Crewe Alexandra in a penalty shoot out.
Here are the highlights of their victory against Crewe Alexandra.
After a few more years in the third tier, York were relegated back to the basement of the football league again in 1999, where they remained for five years.
So, as Forest's era at the top ended, York City, at least at that point, were at least still in the football league.
Things soon got worse for York, though. In 2004, they finished bottom and were thus relegated to the Conference ending 69 successive seasons in the league football.
In eight years in the Conference, York City reached the promotion play offs three times. In 2006/07 they lost at the semi-final stage and in 2009/10 went down to Oxford United in the final and then, on May 20th 2012, they won promotion back to the Football League again after beating Luton Town 2-1 at Wembley. This latter game marked the club’s 4th appearance at the national stadium in four years and completed a league and cup double that season.
The York City manager at the time was an old Forest man, Gary Mills, who made his debut for us at the age of 16 against Arsenal in 1978
After four years in the Football League's fourth tier, York dropped back into the Conference finishing in 24th place in League 2 in 2015/16. The following season City suffered a second successive relegation to join a sad bunch of ex-league teams struggling in the National League Northern Division, step two, in the football league pyramid: Stockport County, Bradford Park Avenue, Chester, Southport, Darlington and Hereford.
As I write only Stockport County and Chester seem to have any chance of promotion and eventually restoring their football league status.
't'll be reyt. Cum on, York!
But to end this post on, there's only one topic to discuss of course... and that is the new era of Martin O'Neill (and Roy Keane, of course) at Forest today.
As I write this, Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane have only been in charge just seven games and I think it's been a tough baptism. They inherited a squad devoid of confidence and with a huge injury/suspension crisis at the heart of the defence.
Their first match was at home to THE in form team at that moment, Bristol City, who were on their way to winning seven successive games and, as most expected, the Robbins largely tore our makeshift defence apart in the first half. Martin steadied the ship at half time but Forest still conceded the only goal.
Next up were Wigan Athletic and Martin managed to find a way to win. Three great goals overcame a Wigan side that played well in patched and, again, caused us problems at the back.
Birmingham City away next and Forest had been bolstered with four more signings from the January window as well as the addition of Roy Keane, freshly installed as Martin O'Neill's assistant. The problem in the center of defence now started to look plugged with the excellent new signing of the Swede Alex Milosovic alongside the Tunisian Yohan Benalouane, even though as the match started, the two of them had only had 180 minutes game time for Forest between them. Forest succumbed to some bad luck. Lolley hit the post early on but at the other end, Birmingham scored to put the pressure on in a scrappy game. As Forest pressed for an equaliser, Birmingham broke away and scored a winner at then end Benalouane opted to handle on the line to try to stop the ball going in - but ended up getting sent off as the Blues extended their lead and Forest's misery.
Next, another home game against another in-form side, Brentford. The bees swarmed all over Forest for long periods of the game attacking another reshuffled back line to cope with the suspended Benaloune. Martin gave a start to a young lad most of us had hardly heard of - Ryan Yates - and he played a blinder. Forest's style, though, is now more direct and despite Brentford 70% possession, we carved out more clear cut chances. Grabban scored early which explains much of Brentford's possession stats and new signing Leo Bonatini should have made it two before half time. In the second half, both Goncalves and Grabban had great opportunities to extend the lead before Grabban was awarded a penalty - but missed for the 4th time this season. Some relief was at last attained when Molla Wague - another new signing - scored his first goal for the club. Brentford came back with a goal though to keep me biting my nails to the end.
Then, Forest were robbed of a great and deserved victory at the Hawthorns when referee Lee Mason was conned by Dwight Gayle into giving Albion an 89th minute penalty, duly converted by Jay Rodriguez. A minute or two later, down the other end, Joe Lolley clearly had his shirt pulled back as he lined up to shoot - but no penalty was awarded. Forest had twice taken the lead with goals from the new young lad, Ryan Yates. (OK, the first was technically an own goal but it was Yates who applied the last touch before Johansen knocked it into his own net.) I thought it was impressive, typically gutsy performance from an O'Neill side and one that certainly confirms to me that, at last, the club are heading in the right direction. Reaching the play offs might be a bridge too far this season (especially after we've been denied four points through dodgy refereeing decisions in response to Leeds and Albion cheating) but, surely, we must be among the favourites to go up next if these two settle in.
Three days later, Forest's referees curse struck again when what looked like a perfectly legitimate goal was ruled out at Preston. I thought Forest deserved to win that one too. So O'Neill and Keane could be have been four points down on what they would have been had it not been for some dodgy referring.
Then, just a few minutes ago (as I write this) Forest secured a vital 1-0 win against our bitter rivals, Derby County, to close the gap with the top six to just three points (albeit with Bristol City having two games in hand).
There are still twelve games to go, and if Forest can just get themselves on a winning run we could still end up in the play offs and, who knows, that long dreamed of return to the top flight.
Right now, Forest's record against the others in the top eight is only bettered by Leeds United. Clearly we have nothing to fear from any team in the championship. If Forest can make the play offs, we have as good a chance as anyone to get that elusive third promotion spot.
I'm confident, anyway. I maintain that O'Neill/Keane is the best managerial appointment the club have made in 44 years. If I'm right, we'll see the proof in front of our eyes as they shoot inexorably up my all-time Forest manager's table.
Here it is at the moment, ranked by first seven games in charge...
So, as I was saying last time...
All good things come to an end and 40 years ago it was another of Forest's amazing unbeaten sequences: our run of 49 home matches in all competitions. Who breached the City Ground fortress? Appropriately, perhaps, it was The Gunners.
There was a lot of stuff going on around at that time and so this post is quite a mixed bag. Forest beat York City 3-1 in the F.A. Cup 4th Round on a white, snow-covered, pitch with an orange ball, so I pay tribute to club from the Yorkshire capital and their pretty impressive giant-killing exploits in the cup before their recent sad demise - currently in step 2 of the football league pyramid, one division below the conference.
As the Nottingham University football Supporters club got into full swing (at least I think it did by this time), we organised a coach to Wembley to watch England beat Northern Ireland 4-0 in the European championship qualifier. The only Forest player on the pitch that night was Martin O'Neill and, as I'm still buzzing like a six year old on Christmas morning about Martin the Messiah returning to the City Ground, I'll take a look at his international career and the 13 and a half years he was Forest's most capped player, some of which was while his playing career continued elsewhere after leaving Forest. I also discuss his earliest days in management.
It was also around this time that Forest broke the bank and the UK transfer record when they bought Trevor Francis for £1.15m. I look at the incredible contrast in Clough/Taylor's involvement in the transfer market 40 years ago (zero signings in 400 days as league champions) compared to today (31 signings, spending £25m, as a middle of the table second tier side).
Being Martin O'Neill's biggest fan (I witnessed two spells of his football wizardry) I couldn't resist a few comparisons between him and Francis - especially as everyone (me included) imagined that O'Neill would be the player to make way for the star signing. That turns out to be a myth and Martin's record, as always, seems to compare favourably, with anyone's - even George Best's (at least it does for Northern Ireland.)
In between all this I keep up with goings on in the league including Forest's 3-1 win at Ayresome Park, Middlesbrough, a defeat at Highbury and trips to Highfield Road and Filbert Street.
Previously: Watford in the League Cup
Transfer Trevor - Francis on the List
On 26th January the football media were buzzing with the news that Birmingham City had finally put Trevor Francis on the transfer list, but their asking prices was huge - a million pounds. This was almost double the existing UK transfer record, which had only been set a few weeks before when David Mills was bought from Middlesbrough by West Bromwich Albion. Brain Clough & Peter Taylor signaled their interest, nevertheless. |
| Trevor Francis... could it really be that he was coming to Forest? |
The England squad was announced for the forthcoming European Championship Qualifier against Northern Ireland. There was no place for Trevor Francis - or Peter Shilton, Tony Woodcock or Viv Anderson so Martin O'Neill would be the only Forest player on the pitch.
In the midst of all this excitement, we got ready for more cup football on Trentside and the return of York City.
So here's a potted history of the famous old club.
York City Football Club 1908-1999
The grand old club of York... had not won much over the years, but they did get to the second tier once and even finished higher (just one place) than Forest on one occasion. Not much success for York City, then, but they did have a couple of glorious cup runs.
York City F.C. were founded in 1908 and joined the Northern League in the 20th season it had run, having formed just a year after the football league, in 1889.
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| York City's first season of competitive football - The Northern League 1908-09 |
The next season, York finished bottom, dropped out of the league and joined the Yorkshire combination.
The earliest team photo I could track down was this one from before 1912.
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| York City ca 1912 |
They still didn't do very well...
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| York City in the Yorkshire Combination 1910-1912 |
After the first world war, the club re-formed abut struggled to find their way. For a while York YMCA were the premier team in the city.
The club started playing at a ground in the city called Fulfordgate.
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| York City's ground 1922-1932 |
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| York City F.C. 1922 |
York City missed out on the chance to join the football league when it was expanded in 1922. Division Three North ran for eight seasons before, at last, the club were admitted in place of Ashington, in 1929. Their first league match was away to Wigan Borough on 31st August 1929 where they won 2-0.
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| York City's First season in the Football League |
York established themselves as decent side in the league but would never challenge for the one promotion slot.
City moved across town to a new ground, Bootham Crescent at the start of the 1932-33 season but it was not a happy move as the club finished 3rd from bottom that season.
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| York City move across town in 1932 |
In 1936, York City suffered their record defeat - 12-0 at Chester.
The most notable season between the wars, though, was 1937-38 when they had a very impressive F.A. Cup run, only losing to Huddersfield Town in a quarter final replay at Leeds Road.
Middlesbrough finished 5th in the First Division that season, so their 5th round scalp was much prized.
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| York City v Middlesbrough 12th Feb 1938 |
The Quarter final clash against first Division One side, Huddersfield Town (still famous for their three successive titles in the 1920s but by then, struggling somewhat, in 15th place in 1938), is still the record attendance at Bootham Crescent, 28,123. Here is some classic Pathe footage of the tie after a rather spiffing report of the Spurs match against Sunderland... Hurrah!!
The game ended 0-0 and so it had to go to a replay.
During these times, York City played in red shirts and not the claret that I and many fans will associate with them.
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| York City's major kit changes over the years (from http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/York_City/York_City.htm) |
After the war, York City continued their life in Division Three North and even challenged for promotion a couple of times, in 1952-53 and 1954-55.
But the most glorious moment in York City's history is surely their F.A. Cup run in 1954-55 when they reached the semi-final and only lost to Newcastle United after a replay.
Their 3-1 5th Round victory over first division Tottenham (but only 16th though) was surely York City's greatest day.
Here's some more classic Pathe footage of the match...
A quarter final victory in Nottingham, at Meadow Lane, against second division Notts County, set them up for a delicious-looking semi-final clash against Newcastle United at Sheffield's Hillsborough.
The game ended 1-1 and so required a replay. Here are more classic highlights...
Unfortunately, City couldn't quite reproduce their cup form in the league, but they did finish 4th...
In 1957 York City beat Southport 9-1. It is still their record victory.
In 1957-58 Division Three North & South merged to form Division Three and Four and City just failed to make the top half of the table and so played in the first ever Fourth Division.
After 23 successive years in Division Three North, York repeatedly bounced between the third and fourth tiers, never spending more than five consecutive seasons in either.
But in 1973-74, York achieved promotion to the second division for the first time under the management of Tom Johnson.
So, for the first time in their history, York City played in the same division as Forest, just as I was becoming a Forest fanatic.
I had already seen York City twice at Field Mill, home of Mansfield Town: A 0-0 draw in League Division Three and then a classic 5-3 defeat to the Stags in an F.A. Cup First round tie in 1973.
The first competitive match ever between Forest and York City was played at the City Ground on Saturday, 23rd November 1974. Forest won 2-1 in front of 10,271 spectators. I was one of them.
Nottingham Forest
1 John Middleton, 2 Liam O'Kane, 3 Paddy Greenwood, 4 John Cottam, 5 Paul Jones, 6 Paul Richardson, 7 Tommy Jackson, 8 George Lyall, 9 Neil Martin, 10 Ian Bowyer, 11 Miah Dennehy, 12 Barry Butlin.
Goals: Paul Richardson 1, Ian Bowyer 1.
The first time Forest went to York for a competitive match was just two months later but I didn't go to that one. The game ended in a 1-1 draw.
This was the first time York City had ever played in the second tier and it remains their best season. They even finished above Forest in the league - the only time in their history they did that.
York had started the season pretty well and were even in the top 6 in October, but Forest overtook them for the middle of the season, only for York to pip them at the end.
The next season, York were doomed to relegation, along with Portsmouth and have never returned to the second tier since.
I went to both matches this season. Forest won the match at the City Ground 1-0 in front of 13,108.
In the York City side that season was the ex-Forest stalwart, Barry Lyons. He played over 200 games for the Reds and 85 for The Minster Men.
The trip to Bootham Crescent was on a pleasant day in March, if I remember. But the result was frustrating. Forest lost 3-2 when we were hoping (and expecting) a win in front of 5,571 fans.
But the most glorious moment in York City's history is surely their F.A. Cup run in 1954-55 when they reached the semi-final and only lost to Newcastle United after a replay.
Their 3-1 5th Round victory over first division Tottenham (but only 16th though) was surely York City's greatest day.
Here's some more classic Pathe footage of the match...
A quarter final victory in Nottingham, at Meadow Lane, against second division Notts County, set them up for a delicious-looking semi-final clash against Newcastle United at Sheffield's Hillsborough.
The game ended 1-1 and so required a replay. Here are more classic highlights...
Unfortunately, City couldn't quite reproduce their cup form in the league, but they did finish 4th...
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In 1957 York City beat Southport 9-1. It is still their record victory.
In 1957-58 Division Three North & South merged to form Division Three and Four and City just failed to make the top half of the table and so played in the first ever Fourth Division.
After 23 successive years in Division Three North, York repeatedly bounced between the third and fourth tiers, never spending more than five consecutive seasons in either.
But in 1973-74, York achieved promotion to the second division for the first time under the management of Tom Johnson.
So, for the first time in their history, York City played in the same division as Forest, just as I was becoming a Forest fanatic.
I had already seen York City twice at Field Mill, home of Mansfield Town: A 0-0 draw in League Division Three and then a classic 5-3 defeat to the Stags in an F.A. Cup First round tie in 1973.
The first competitive match ever between Forest and York City was played at the City Ground on Saturday, 23rd November 1974. Forest won 2-1 in front of 10,271 spectators. I was one of them.
Nottingham Forest
1 John Middleton, 2 Liam O'Kane, 3 Paddy Greenwood, 4 John Cottam, 5 Paul Jones, 6 Paul Richardson, 7 Tommy Jackson, 8 George Lyall, 9 Neil Martin, 10 Ian Bowyer, 11 Miah Dennehy, 12 Barry Butlin.
Goals: Paul Richardson 1, Ian Bowyer 1.
The first time Forest went to York for a competitive match was just two months later but I didn't go to that one. The game ended in a 1-1 draw.
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| York at home to Forest for the first time ever |
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| The Forest team that season |
This was the first time York City had ever played in the second tier and it remains their best season. They even finished above Forest in the league - the only time in their history they did that.
York had started the season pretty well and were even in the top 6 in October, but Forest overtook them for the middle of the season, only for York to pip them at the end.
The next season, York were doomed to relegation, along with Portsmouth and have never returned to the second tier since.
I went to both matches this season. Forest won the match at the City Ground 1-0 in front of 13,108.
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| The match programme with my ratings |
In the York City side that season was the ex-Forest stalwart, Barry Lyons. He played over 200 games for the Reds and 85 for The Minster Men.
The trip to Bootham Crescent was on a pleasant day in March, if I remember. But the result was frustrating. Forest lost 3-2 when we were hoping (and expecting) a win in front of 5,571 fans.
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| York Minster - dominates the skyline of a very beautiful city. |
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| Bootham Crescent as it looked in 1975 |
Visiting York City that season had been my 23rd ground...
So, to summarise... in the entire history of the two clubs, there has only been one season when York City finished above Forest in the league: Forest 115 York 1 !!
So, as the day of the match approached, York City were returning to the City Ground for only the third time in their history, but now they did so as a struggling 4th division side.
Match 301, Saturday 27th January 1979: F. A. Cup 4th Round...
Nottingham Forest 3 York City 1 (155th match at the City Ground, 215th Forest game, 6th York)
The cold weather that had gripped England this winter hadn't abated and yet another day of football was disrupted. Somehow, the officials decided to pack the snow on the pitch and play the game anyway. To be fair it was still an entertaining game and, of course, we didn't care much anyway, because Forest won.
The Teams
Nottingham Forest
1 Peter Shilton, 2 Viv Anderson, 3 Ian Bowyer, 4 John McGovern, 5 Larry Lloyd, 6 Kenny Burns, 7 Martin O'Neill, 8 Archie Gemmill, 9 Gary Birtles, 10 Tony Woodcock, 11 John Robertson.
Goals: John McGovern 1, Larry Lloyd 1, Martin O'Neill 1.
York City
1 Graham Bown, 2 Roy Kay, 3 Jimmy Walsh, 4 David Pugh, 5 Steve Faulkner, 6 Andy Clements, 7 Gary Ford, 8 Kevin Randall, 9 David Loggie, 10 Ian McDonald, 11 Gordon Staniforth.
Goals : Barry Wellings 1.
Substitutions: Barry Wellings(12) came on for David Loggie (9).
Attendance: 25,228
1 Peter Shilton, 2 Viv Anderson, 3 Ian Bowyer, 4 John McGovern, 5 Larry Lloyd, 6 Kenny Burns, 7 Martin O'Neill, 8 Archie Gemmill, 9 Gary Birtles, 10 Tony Woodcock, 11 John Robertson.
Goals: John McGovern 1, Larry Lloyd 1, Martin O'Neill 1.
York City
1 Graham Bown, 2 Roy Kay, 3 Jimmy Walsh, 4 David Pugh, 5 Steve Faulkner, 6 Andy Clements, 7 Gary Ford, 8 Kevin Randall, 9 David Loggie, 10 Ian McDonald, 11 Gordon Staniforth.
Goals : Barry Wellings 1.
Substitutions: Barry Wellings(12) came on for David Loggie (9).
Attendance: 25,228
I was delighted to find this gem in the YouTube archives ... as Forest v York was televised...
Gary Newbon interviewed Peter Taylor after the match about Trevor Francis as an extra bonus.
Martin O'Neill is upper most in my mind at the moment and, of course, 40 years ago he was instrumental in the victory, setting up Larry Lloyd and scoring one himself.
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| O'Neill makes it 3-0 |
So, this was the 5th meeting of the two clubs and, as one would expect, Forest had the upper hand, although probably not as much of an upper hand as we would have expected.
Other Cup 4th Round Games
22 other matches were played in the 4th round and the whole round took over a month to complete.The big shock of the round was Shrewsbury Town's victory against Manchester City ... David Coleman was the commentator.
Arsenal beat Notts County 2-0. Barry Davies provided the commentary on BBC...
Here's WBA v Leeds...
And Ipswich v Orient
And Newcastle v Wolves.
Here's action from Craven Cottage, Brian Moore commentating, of Fulham v Manchester United
The week following, Forest secured their return to Wembley for the League Cup final by drawing 0-0 at Vicarage Road, Watford. I covered all about Watford and Elton John in my last blog post.
On Thursday 1st February, Wrexham beat Stockport 6-2 in the final tie of the F.A. Cup 3rd round - a match that had been postponed no fewer than NINE times.
League Programme 3rd February 1979 - Weekend Off for me
The following Saturday, Forest were back in league action with a trip to Middlesbrough. I missed this (and every game) that day.
The Forest match was televised...
Here are the highlights of Manchester City's return to form including a brilliant performance from Peter Barnes at White Hart Lane...
Frustratingly, I couldn't find any footage of the top of the table clash, but here's the report in Guardian...
So, Liverpool found themselves back on top...
Robbo's goal kept him as Forest's top scorer again.
The current form (last 3 home/away) table was now headed by Leeds United.
The composite 1977-79 table was still being lead by Forest, thanks to our win at Ayresome Park.
Clough and Taylor re-enter the transfer market
The Monday afterwards, Forest were back in negotiations with Birmingham City about the signing of Trevor Francis. It really did start to look like Forest were seriously going in for him. It's amazing to think that in those days Forest were about lay out double the previous UK record signing for a player. One million pounds was, apparently, simply too much for Liverpool or Manchester United or Arsenal or Spurs or Newcastle United (and don't even mention Manchester City or Chelsea - paupers!) but not Forest!Another bizarre point on the signing from the perspective of today is simply how quiet the market was in those days, especially from Forest's the point of view.
There we were, on 7th February 1979, and Forest had not signed a single new player since David Needham in the middle of December 1977. Forest were first division champions, remember, with two managers who were reputedly not shy of dipping in the transfer market. But they had not "dipped' for over 400 days.
Contrast that with Forest today...
As I write this, in the last 400 days, Forest have made at least THIRTY-ONE signings in the same timescale...
A conservative estimate of Forest's recent outlay is about 25 million pounds - which is about 5 million in 1979 terms (accounting for inflation.) And this, remember, is for a side that is essentially a mid table second tier side, not the first division champions, like Forest were forty years ago.
Contrast that with today: The current champions, Manchester City, have spent around around 35 times as much as Forest have in the last three transfer windows.
Who would Francis displace?
So, with Trevor Francis about to join the club, which of the Forest squad was looking over his shoulder most?Francis could play as an out and out striker, so Garry Birtles and Tony Woodcock might have been a little concerned, but another player, Martin O'Neill - Forest's new manager today - must have also been a little concerned, as a right-sided attacking midfielder, especially as he'd never got on with Brian Clough as well as many of the squad.
It's ironic, then, that in the week Trevor Francis was being snaffled by Clough & Taylor, I went to Wembley with the Nottingham University Football Supporters Club, to watch Martin O'Neill make his 28th cap for Northern Ireland against England in the European Championship qualifier.
Martin O'Neill's 28th cap for Northern Ireland - Forest most capped player at the time
Now is the perfect time, then, to focus a little on one of my biggest, if not THE BIGGEST, of Forest heroes.
Like all proper heroes, Martin O'Neill was born in a place few will have heard of: Kilrea, a tiny village of some 2,700 people - that's more than six times smaller than my home town of Kirkby-in-Ashfield.
Martin's family was the size of a football team. Two parents and nine kids. I bet they had breakfast in a 4-4-2 formation. Martin was always a bit of talker, apparently. Legend has it that his mum, Greta, would drop him off at his Dad's barber shop and find him a chair where he would sit for ages precociously talking to the men waiting to get a hair cut.
As with many boys of the era, they spent hours playing all sorts of sports but mainly football, tennis and Gaelic rules with his brothers Leo and Gerry. Unlike most lads from Northern Ireland, Martin wasn't a Liverpool or Manchester United fan, but followed Sunderland. This was apparently because they had an Irish hero (born in Cork but brought up in Essex) played for them... Charley Hurley. He won 40 caps for Ireland.
O'Neill played Gaelic football to a very high standard and could probably have made a name for himself in that code if he hadn't been smart enough to realise that the World Game was a better option. And, yes, he was smart. Despite signing for Distillery at the age of 18, Martin was set to go to Queens University, in Belfast, to do a Law degree.
Like all proper heroes, Martin O'Neill was born in a place few will have heard of: Kilrea, a tiny village of some 2,700 people - that's more than six times smaller than my home town of Kirkby-in-Ashfield.
Martin's family was the size of a football team. Two parents and nine kids. I bet they had breakfast in a 4-4-2 formation. Martin was always a bit of talker, apparently. Legend has it that his mum, Greta, would drop him off at his Dad's barber shop and find him a chair where he would sit for ages precociously talking to the men waiting to get a hair cut.
As with many boys of the era, they spent hours playing all sorts of sports but mainly football, tennis and Gaelic rules with his brothers Leo and Gerry. Unlike most lads from Northern Ireland, Martin wasn't a Liverpool or Manchester United fan, but followed Sunderland. This was apparently because they had an Irish hero (born in Cork but brought up in Essex) played for them... Charley Hurley. He won 40 caps for Ireland.
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| O'Neill's hero, Charlie Hurley, made over 400 appearances for Sunderland (1957-1969) |
O'Neill played Gaelic football to a very high standard and could probably have made a name for himself in that code if he hadn't been smart enough to realise that the World Game was a better option. And, yes, he was smart. Despite signing for Distillery at the age of 18, Martin was set to go to Queens University, in Belfast, to do a Law degree.
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| Martin the college team |
Martin had a great first season with Distillery, helping them reach the Irish Cup final, where they beat Derry City 3-0 in April 1971. The 19 year old scored twice, the second of which was compared to a goal Puskas had scored a few years before..
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| O'Neill is emulating Frenc Puskas here, at Windsor Park |
Martin only made seven appearances for Lisburn Distillery (according to Wikipedia) but he scored three goals.
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| 19 year old O'Neill at Distillery |
Who did they draw? Only Barcelona!
It goes without saying that Barcelona won but Martin O'Neill managed to get on the score sheet with an apparently, brilliant goal.
This is how it was described by Dawson Simpson, Distillery's historian...
‘The 77th minute saw 19-year-old Martin O’Neill produce a moment of sheer magic. He tried a one-two with Martin Donnelly, but the return pass was played behind him. Somehow O’Neill managed to stretch back, drag it forward and strike it in one swift, stunning movement, and it rocketed off the base of the post with the keeper staring in disbelief. It was a real masterpiece.’
Martin had started at Queen's by now but had decided that he would leave if a good offer came in from a good professional football club.
An offer did come in a few weeks later, but only from Terry Neill the Northern Ireland manager - for his first international cap.
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| Martin's First Cap was against the Soviet Union |
Of all people, Martin basically replaced George Best, at the time 25 years old and at the peak of his career. Apparently, Best had had a bit of a fall out with the manager, having won 20 caps for his country at that point. Martin came on as a substitute for Bryan Hamilton. The game ended in 1-1 draw in front of 16,573.
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| George Best - 37 caps for Norther Ireland (1964-1978) |
George Best would make up later and end up get another 17 call ups for Northern Ireland, reaching 37 in total. Best and O'Neill's international careers would overlap for six years but as far as I can gather, they only made a couple of starts together in the same team.
The first time this happened was on 14th November 1973. Manager Terry Neill actually selected three Forest players in the same team as George Best. Tommy Jackson made his 15th cap, Liam O'Kane won his 9th (and scored their only goal) and Martin was on his 4th.
The second time, now under Danny Blanchflower, was four years later, as Best returned from a couple of years absence, perhaps feeling he should give a little back to his roots.
Martin O'Neill signs for Nottingham Forest
Just a few days later, Martin signed for Nottingham Forest for £25,000, and the rest, as they say, is history.O'Neill made his debut at home West Bromwich Albion on November 13th 1971, coming on as a substitute - ironically for for Barry Lyons (the guy who played for York City in the cup, remember.)
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| Martin's debut for Forest |
I didn't see that game but Martin must have done enough to impress manager Matt Gillies as he was selected to start in Forest's next match, away to Newcastle United. Forest lost 1-0.
The next game though, his third, I did see. Martin's full home league debut was against league leaders Leeds United, which Forest lost 0-2.
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| Martin' first full home appearance |
Forest were relegated at the end of that season, with Martin O'Neill making 10 appearances, with 7 as substitute. He scored two goals. I saw four of them. He also won a further two caps for Northern Ireland.
I didn't go to any Forest games in the 1972-73 season, so I missed all of his 31 league appearances (+ 4 as sub). Martin was joint top scorer that season, along with Duncan McKenzie - they both only got the paltry total of six goals, though. O'Neill made a further two appearances in the cup (one in each competition). Martin won his 8th cap for Northern Ireland.
The next season was the one I became mesmerized by Duncan McKenzie's dribbling against Manchester City and became a fully-fledged Forest fan. Martin O'Neill only made 25 league appearances (+ 2 subs) in the 1973-74 season as manager Allan Brown wasn't his biggest fan, it seems. Bizarrely, I didn't see any of the league games. He only scored one goal, at home to Swindon Town. Martin was picked for both League Cup games, and four in the F.A. Cup run. I did see three of those. Martin won four more caps for Northern Ireland that season.
In 1974-75, Martin made ten league appearances and 2 in the League Cup under Allan Brown, scoring one goal, before Brown was sacked after the Boxing Day home defeat to Notts County. Under new manager, Brian Clough, O'Neill made a further six league appearances and four in the cup, including their famous 1-0 win at White Hart Lane in Cloughie's first match and three games against Fulham. I saw 12 of his appearances. Martin another four caps for his country.
In Cloughie's first full season in charge, Martin O'Neill made 29 starts in the league and one as substitute, taking him over 100 league appearances for Forest. Ironically the match that reached that landmark was against his favourite team as a boy, Sunderland. O'Neill scored five goals in the league that season. He made two appearances in the League Cup but none in the F.A. Cup. Martin won one more cap for Northern Ireland.
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| Martin's 100th league appearance for Forest was against Sunderland |
In Forest's promotion season O'Neill made 38 league appearances and two as substitute. He scored 9 league goals. He also scored two goals in the League Cup, playing in both games. Martin played in all five F.A. Cup ties. Martin won just two more caps that season.
In Forest's glorious return back to the top flight, in 1977-78, Martin O'Neill (now 25) made another 38 starts in the league with 2 as substitute and scored eight goals. He was an ever present in the League Cup run - that is playing in all eight games, and scoring three. He also played in all six in the F.A. Cup run, scoring twice, including the famous last minute equaliser at Loftus Road that kept our audacious hopes of the treble alive a little longer.
On 12th October 1977, just after our 0-0 draw at West Ham United, Martin O'Neill was picked to play Holland in a World Cup qualifier in Belfast. It was his 21st cap and, as such, took him ahead of Liam O'Kane as Forest's (then) most capped player. By the end of the season he'd added a further three, taking his tally to 24.
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| Liam O'Kane Forest's most capped player 1975-1977 |
So, to bring us up to date in this blog post... Martin had made a further 15 league appearances so far this season, taking his Forest career total to 195. He'd scored another four goals taking his overall tally for Forest to 36. He'd played in five of the seven league cup ties, scoring once. Martin hadn't yet played in Europe, so overall O'Neill had now made 235 appearances for Forest in all competitions scoring 41 goals.
As we prepared to travel down from Nottingham to watch Northern Ireland play England at Wembley, I had no idea that this would be his 28th cap, taking him well ahead of the other capped Forest players in Forest's long history.
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| Martin O'Neill's Northern Ireland Appearances |
303rd match - Wednesday 7th February 1979, England 4 Northern Ireland 0 (8th time at Wembley, 3rd Full England match)
I seem to remember that we had a pretty decent coach load but other than that, memories are, of course, sketchy. We were in one end of the ground but I can't remember if it was the end the players came out, or the other.
Not one Forest player made the England team. Remember these were the days of Ron Greenwood, who preferred Ray Clemence over Peter Shilton.
Here are the math highlights...
Here are the math highlights...
And here's the match report...
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| Martin O'Neill - Forest's most capped player in 1979 |
So, a poor result for Northern Ireland, but another landmark for O'Neill as he gained his 28th cap, his 27th whilst at Forest.
Here's a list of all the players who had won international caps whilst playing for Forest at that time. Martin was already clear by a mile.
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| Most capped players for Nottingham Forest 40 years ago |
The result put England top of Group One (just) but with a game in hand...
Trevor Francis Joins Forest for £1,000,000+
The following Friday, 9th February, Nottingham Forest sent shock-waves around the football world by signing the Birmingham City star Trevor Francis, the first million pound signing in British football. It beat the previous highest (David Mills signed by West Bromwich Albion from Middlesbrough) by a mile.
Trevor Francis was born on 19th April 1954 in Plymouth, Devon, That's two years, one month and 18 days after Martin O'Neill. Already, at the age of eight years old, he'd established himself in the Under-13 side at his school in Plymouth.
Francis apparently scored 800 goals in Devon schools football and left early, not even bothering with his 'O' Levels as he was wanted by several league clubs. (Not as bright as Martin then!)
He joined Birmingham City as a schoolboy and made his debut at home to Oxford United on 12th September 1970 at the age of 16, scoring the winning goal. He came on as a sub at Cardiff City the week before.
In his first season, Francis scored 15 goals in just 22 league appearances, including four against Bolton Wanderers. After this amazing start, Francis couldn't quite continue this rate of scoring but was always among the goals at Birmingham City's especially after Bob Latchford had left for Everton.
Francis quickly won a reputation for his lightning pace, acceleration and lethal finishing. Despite this record, Francis still had not won any silverware and just 12 caps for England at this stage of his career.
If only he could join a more successful club with a more successful manager...
This was the record that impressed Clough and Taylor so much and got them to splash the cash...
The goals in the summer of 1978 were for Detroit Express in the USA, where he played alongside Franz Beckenbauer.
So, Thursday, 9th February was the day the British transfer record was smashed and Forest shocked the football world...
The big myth surrounding this signing is that Brian Clough didn't want to be the first to pay a million so insisted the fee was "just" £999,999. But even if it was as low as £975,000 the VAT and levy would have made it over £1,150,000.
This was more than twice the previous British record, the highest percentage leap ever, since the £700 Newcastle paid to Sunderland was 7x bigger than the previous record.
£1,150,000 sounds like a lot, but one should remember that this was only the UK transfer record. The world record was already much higher. A higher fee had been paid by Napoli to Bologna for Guiseppe Savoldi four years ago and that was beaten again by Juventus when they paid Vicenza the equivalent of about £1.75 million for Paolo Rossi.
So, with Forest's first signing for 400 days safely in the squad, Trevor Francis might have been looking forward to a debut match against his old brummie rivals, Aston Villa, at the City Ground the following day.
It wasn't to be, however. The cold weather disrupted the league programme yet again and, instead, Francis played his first game for Forest's 3rd team, against Notts County - apparently in front of a crowd of just 40! The legend has it that Forest got in trouble with the F. A. over this as they hadn't signed all the registration forms correctly
Typical Brian! He apparently wanted to keep Francis' feet on the ground and made him do all sorts of humiliating tasks like make the other players cups of tea.
Trevor Francis was born on 19th April 1954 in Plymouth, Devon, That's two years, one month and 18 days after Martin O'Neill. Already, at the age of eight years old, he'd established himself in the Under-13 side at his school in Plymouth.
Francis apparently scored 800 goals in Devon schools football and left early, not even bothering with his 'O' Levels as he was wanted by several league clubs. (Not as bright as Martin then!)
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| Francis the Wonder Kid |
He joined Birmingham City as a schoolboy and made his debut at home to Oxford United on 12th September 1970 at the age of 16, scoring the winning goal. He came on as a sub at Cardiff City the week before.
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| Francis, 37 days before his 17th Birthday |
In his first season, Francis scored 15 goals in just 22 league appearances, including four against Bolton Wanderers. After this amazing start, Francis couldn't quite continue this rate of scoring but was always among the goals at Birmingham City's especially after Bob Latchford had left for Everton.
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| Celebrating one of his early goals |
Francis quickly won a reputation for his lightning pace, acceleration and lethal finishing. Despite this record, Francis still had not won any silverware and just 12 caps for England at this stage of his career.
If only he could join a more successful club with a more successful manager...
This was the record that impressed Clough and Taylor so much and got them to splash the cash...
The goals in the summer of 1978 were for Detroit Express in the USA, where he played alongside Franz Beckenbauer.
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| Trevor Francis scored 22 goals in 19 games for Detroit Express in the NASL |
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| Frustrated with no success at Birmingham City - it was time to move on |
So, Thursday, 9th February was the day the British transfer record was smashed and Forest shocked the football world...
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| Trevor, his wife Helen, and Brian after signing |
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| Peter Taylor, Trevor Francis and Brian at the Press Conference |
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| One Trevor Francis.... there's only one Trevor Francis! |
The big myth surrounding this signing is that Brian Clough didn't want to be the first to pay a million so insisted the fee was "just" £999,999. But even if it was as low as £975,000 the VAT and levy would have made it over £1,150,000.
This was more than twice the previous British record, the highest percentage leap ever, since the £700 Newcastle paid to Sunderland was 7x bigger than the previous record.
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| Francis was the 32nd player to top the UK record transfer fee paid, 2.29x the previous highest |
£1,150,000 sounds like a lot, but one should remember that this was only the UK transfer record. The world record was already much higher. A higher fee had been paid by Napoli to Bologna for Guiseppe Savoldi four years ago and that was beaten again by Juventus when they paid Vicenza the equivalent of about £1.75 million for Paolo Rossi.
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| The World's most expensive footballer in 1979 - still, Paolo Rossi |
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| World Record Transfer Fees paid |
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| Francis' debut in the Midland League |
It wasn't to be, however. The cold weather disrupted the league programme yet again and, instead, Francis played his first game for Forest's 3rd team, against Notts County - apparently in front of a crowd of just 40! The legend has it that Forest got in trouble with the F. A. over this as they hadn't signed all the registration forms correctly
Typical Brian! He apparently wanted to keep Francis' feet on the ground and made him do all sorts of humiliating tasks like make the other players cups of tea.
Match 304: Saturday 10th February: Coventry City 1 Tottenham Hotspur 3 (Highfield Road 2nd; Coventry City 6th; Tottenham 5th)
I think we got the train to Coventry that day, but I might be wrong. I stood, with Jake, among the Spurs fans. Spurs won the match 3-1 to move up to 8th in the table, their joint highest place in the season so far. But, again I do not have any memory of the game at all.
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| Forest v Villa was called off along with three other games |
Birmingham lost their first game without Trevor Francis 0-1 at home to Leeds United.
Here are the highlight so that match....
Probably the biggest match of the day was at Goodison Park where Everton beat Bristol City 4-1 to leap to the top of the table.
Mancunians might dispute that, though, because it was also the day of the Manchester derby where United beat City 3-0.
So this was the first division table that night with Everton, unusually, sitting on top.
In midweek there were two more big first division games.
Liverpool inflicted the second 1-0 defeat in four days on Birmingham City to take them back to the top of the league and Arsenal won 2-1 at Loftus Road to move into second place. Interestingly, Forest now had four games in hand over Arsenal. Four wins could, theoretically, take them into second place themselves.
The next day, Ipswich made the football headlines as they signed their second Dutchman, Frans Thijssen.
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| Robson's Double Dutch |
And so our attention turned, once more to the F.A. Cup, and Forest's tasty-looking 5th Round tie at home to Arsenal. Trevor Francis would be unavailable as he was cup-tied, having played in Birmingham's third round defeat at home to Burnley on 9th January.
But when the day arrived, once again, the game was called off. In fact, for the first time in F.A. Cup history, all eight 5th Round ties had to be postponed. Only five English league games were actually played that day. At least the pools panel thought Forest would beat Arsenal!
So, what to do? There was always Filbert Street's hot air balloon, so that was the destination for me.
Match 305: Saturday 17th February. Leicester City 2 (Andy Peake, David Buchanan) Newcastle United 1 (Irving Nattrass) Attendance: 15,106. (Filbert Street 3rd, Leicester City 6th, Newcastle United 7th)
No Lineker, No programme. No video. No match report. No memory. No nut'n.
Another week passed by and there was still no break in the freezing weather to allow the cup tie with Arsenal to be played. In fact another full league programme came round again before a slot would be found.
Forest though, typically somehow managed to fit in two friendlies in the interim. One was for Nicky Jenning's testimonial match down at St James' Park, in Exeter on the Monday night and the other was a friendly against West Bromwich Albion (played at Witney of all places) two days later. Francis played for half an hour across the two games, but the majority of fans still waited.
Another week passed by and there was still no break in the freezing weather to allow the cup tie with Arsenal to be played. In fact another full league programme came round again before a slot would be found.
Forest though, typically somehow managed to fit in two friendlies in the interim. One was for Nicky Jenning's testimonial match down at St James' Park, in Exeter on the Monday night and the other was a friendly against West Bromwich Albion (played at Witney of all places) two days later. Francis played for half an hour across the two games, but the majority of fans still waited.
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| Francis' 2nd Forest appearance was at Exeter |
Match 306: Saturday 24th February. Francis' First Appearance for Forest ~
Nottingham Forest 2 Bristol City 0
(156th match at the City Ground, 217th Forest match, 7th Bristol City)
So, 15 days after the most expensive transfer in British football history and over 400 days since our last new signing, only a very few Forest fans had seen their new million pound man in action.
Was it about to change as the weather turned mild on the weekend of February 24th? Forest were down to play a roller coaster Bristol City side who, having enjoyed a great run of form to take them up the table were now experiencing the opposite as they slid down the table again.
With the European Cup, the League Cup and the F.A. Cup all still very much in their sights, we had begun to think that retaining the first division title was probably going to be beyond them this season, especially as Liverpool seemed to be in better form than ever.
But, now we had Trevor Francis, there was plenty incentive to stroll down Trentside to see what was going on. I joined the rest of the Trent Enders that day expecting to see Francis in the starting line up - but of course we should have known better. Clough, the master of keeping players' feet on the ground (or was it just a bit of bullying?), kept the striker on the bench until the 75th minute.
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| McIlvanney 1934-2019 |
"The crowd's pleasure at Francis' arrival was diluted by their resentment of O'Neill's removal, a reaction that was pleasantly warm-hearted if not too rational."
Hugh McIlvanney, the famous journalist who wrote the piece, seemed in no doubt that it would be Martin O'Neill who would be "the unfortunate displaced person", as Francis excelled on the right side of the attack.
Sadly, McIlvanney passed away last month (as I write this) at the age of 84.
We'd soon see if Hugh's assessment was right about Francis' place in the team.
Sadly, McIlvanney passed away last month (as I write this) at the age of 84.
We'd soon see if Hugh's assessment was right about Francis' place in the team.
Apart from Francis on the bench, the team was pretty much as expected.
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| David Needham (Forest's previous signing over 400 days earlier) makes it 1-0. |
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| Needham Celebrates |
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| Garry Birtles makes it 2-0 |
Nottingham Forest
1 Peter Shilton, 2 Viv Anderson, 3 Frank Clark, 4 John McGovern, 5 Larry Lloyd, 6 David Needham, 7 Martin O'Neill, 8 Archie Gemmill, 9 Gary Birtles, 10 Tony Woodcock, 11 John Robertson.
Goals: David Needham 1, Gary Birtles 1.
Substitutions: Trevor Francis (12) came on for Martin O'Neill (7).
Bristol City
1 Ray Cashley, 2 Gerry Sweeney, 3 Terry Cooper, 4 Gerry Gow, 5 David Rodgers, 6 Gary Collier, 7 Trevor Tainton, 8 Andy Ritchie, 9 Joe Royle, 10 Peter Cormack, 11 Kevin Mabbutt.
Substitutions: James Mann(12) came on for Peter Cormack (10).
Attendance 28,008
Here's Hugh McIlvanney's match report....
Forest's win maintained their incredible run of 49 home games, in all competitions, without defeat. That's 672 days, getting close to two years. It's an astonishing record by any standard.
Played 49 Won 36 Drawn 13 Lost 0 Scored For 103 Against 28.
I am proud to say that I went to all but one of them - I only missed the 0-0 draw with Norwich City because my dear sister got married that day.
In other games that day, Liverpool continued to impress with a 2-0 win at the Baseball Ground whilst West Brom lost for the second match running, at home to Leeds United. Everton slipped badly in the title race too, losing at home to Ipswich Town.
At least Francis' old club managed to find a way to beat Spurs to provide temporarily respite in their inexorable slide towards the second division.
Two first division attendances dropped below 14,000: at Norwich and Q. P. R.
Here are some highlights from a couple of the games played that day.
Leeds United were the team on form, along with Arsenal, Liverpool, Forest, Bolton and Wolves.
Birtles' goal put him Forest's joint top scorer, with John Robertson.
This is a convenient time to note that the first million pound striker had just three league goals to his name when he smashed the English record transfer fee and was below Martin O'Neill in the First Division goal scorers chart.
Recent results had put Liverpool back above Forest in the 1977-79 cumulative table. We did have a game in hand though, at this stage.
As the thaw had allowed a full league programme on the Saturday, there was no time to lose to get as many of the 5th Round F.A. Cup ties played that had been abandoned the week before.
For Forest, this meant a very tasty clash with in-form Arsenal at the City Ground. At least Martin O'Neill did not have to worry about Francis taking his spot in the team that night, as Francis was cup-tied, knocked out, remember, by Burnley in the 3rd Round.
Match 307: Monday 26th February. The end of Forest's Unbeaten Home Run ~
Goals: David Needham 1, Gary Birtles 1.
Substitutions: Trevor Francis (12) came on for Martin O'Neill (7).
Bristol City
1 Ray Cashley, 2 Gerry Sweeney, 3 Terry Cooper, 4 Gerry Gow, 5 David Rodgers, 6 Gary Collier, 7 Trevor Tainton, 8 Andy Ritchie, 9 Joe Royle, 10 Peter Cormack, 11 Kevin Mabbutt.
Substitutions: James Mann(12) came on for Peter Cormack (10).
Attendance 28,008
Here's Hugh McIlvanney's match report....
Forest's win maintained their incredible run of 49 home games, in all competitions, without defeat. That's 672 days, getting close to two years. It's an astonishing record by any standard.
Played 49 Won 36 Drawn 13 Lost 0 Scored For 103 Against 28.
I am proud to say that I went to all but one of them - I only missed the 0-0 draw with Norwich City because my dear sister got married that day.
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| 49 Home games unbeaten |
In other games that day, Liverpool continued to impress with a 2-0 win at the Baseball Ground whilst West Brom lost for the second match running, at home to Leeds United. Everton slipped badly in the title race too, losing at home to Ipswich Town.
At least Francis' old club managed to find a way to beat Spurs to provide temporarily respite in their inexorable slide towards the second division.
Two first division attendances dropped below 14,000: at Norwich and Q. P. R.
Here are some highlights from a couple of the games played that day.
Derby 0 Liverpool 2
Here is Ray Kennedy's goal...
WBA 1 Leeds United 2
Leeds fight back after a stunning Tony Brown goal put Albion ahead, to win 2-1.
So, the baggies, who had led the table just a few weeks ago, now found themselves down in 5th place. So much for their title challenge. Liverpool were now three points ahead with two games in hand over Everton and three over Arsenal.
Only Forest and Villa had played fewer games.
Leeds United were the team on form, along with Arsenal, Liverpool, Forest, Bolton and Wolves.
Birtles' goal put him Forest's joint top scorer, with John Robertson.
This is a convenient time to note that the first million pound striker had just three league goals to his name when he smashed the English record transfer fee and was below Martin O'Neill in the First Division goal scorers chart.
Recent results had put Liverpool back above Forest in the 1977-79 cumulative table. We did have a game in hand though, at this stage.
As the thaw had allowed a full league programme on the Saturday, there was no time to lose to get as many of the 5th Round F.A. Cup ties played that had been abandoned the week before.
For Forest, this meant a very tasty clash with in-form Arsenal at the City Ground. At least Martin O'Neill did not have to worry about Francis taking his spot in the team that night, as Francis was cup-tied, knocked out, remember, by Burnley in the 3rd Round.
Match 307: Monday 26th February. The end of Forest's Unbeaten Home Run ~
Nottingham Forest 0 Arsenal 1
(157th match at the City Ground, 218th Forest match, 5th Arsenal)
So, two days later, another trundle daan the City Graaaan. Another big crowd of almost 36,000 turned up to see if this could be Forest's year for the F.A. Cup. Again, very faint memories only - I think I went in the Trent End and I think Stapleton's goal was in front of us in the second half.
I have blurry memories of Martin O'Neill playing out of his skin too - obviously keen to impress Clough and Taylor that when it came to effort he could out-do the new million pound man.
Forest were unlucky on the night to lose but this seemed to be our destiny in the F.A. Cup - the one trophy Brian Clough would never win.
The Programme
Nottingham Forest
1 Peter Shilton, 2 Viv Anderson, 3 Frank Clark, 4 John McGovern, 5 Larry Lloyd, 6 David Needham, 7 Martin O'Neill, 8 Archie Gemmill, 9 Gary Birtles, 10 Tony Woodcock, 11 John Robertson.
Arsenal
1 Pat Jennings, 2 Pat Rice, 3 Sammy Nelson, 4 Brian Talbot, 5 David O'Leary, 6 Steve Walford, 7 Liam Brady, 8 Alan Sunderland, 9 Frank Stapleton, 10 David Price, 11 Graham Rix.
Goals : Frank Stapleton 1.
Attendance: 35,904
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| Martin O'Neill almost scores for the Reds in the first half |
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| David Needham comes close too |
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| Garry Birtles hits the bar early in the second |
The match report...
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| Almost 50 home games unbeaten (in all competitions) unbeaten before the Gunners came to the City Ground in February 1979 |
Following the trend this season, the 5th Round of the F.A. Cup - just eight ties, remember, took 19 days to complete. Not one was played on the original Saturday set aside for the round.
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| 5th Round Ties 1978-79 |
So that was another Cloughie F.A. Cup dream shattered.
Other results...
Colchester United 0 Manchester United 1
The week before, Manchester United already had negotiated a very tricky looking away tie at Layer Road, home of Colchester United and thus avoided the same fate that fell to Don Revie's Leeds United in the same round, eight years earlier.The Essex outfit piled on a lot of pressure before a single Jimmy Greenoff goal sent the Red Devils through...
In other matches, Ipswich slammed Bristol Rovers for six, Liverpool brushed Burnley aside at Anfield, Wolves won at Selhurst Park and Spurs won at Boundary Park, sealing four more First division places in the quarter finals against second division opposition. The only other all-first division clash, between Southampon and West Brom, went to the Saints after a replay.
The final tie, between Third Division leaders, Shrewsbury Town and Fourth Division promotion chasers, Aldershot Town, went the way of "The Darwinists" (They're not really called that, of course, but I think the home of Charles Darwin should be celebrated by local football club somehow) thus guaranteeing at least one of the last eight were not from the top flight.
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What Happened Next?
So, now let's turn our attention from the cold winter of 1979 and pan across the next twenty years or so, until the summer of 1999, which I have arbitrarily marked as the end of Forest's amazing era of success.
Here, I want to focus on just three topics: Martin O'Neill - as I'm still buzzing about the return of the messiah to the City Ground; Trevor Francis - because it was remarkable that it was Forest, not Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Aston Villa etc that smashed the UK transfer record. How did he do for us? Was he worth it?
Finally, I want to end the main part of the blog as it began with another look at York City. Forest's demise from the heights of forty years ago pale into insignificance compared to the depths to which York have plummeted. So, let's not forget them.
Here, I want to focus on just three topics: Martin O'Neill - as I'm still buzzing about the return of the messiah to the City Ground; Trevor Francis - because it was remarkable that it was Forest, not Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Aston Villa etc that smashed the UK transfer record. How did he do for us? Was he worth it?
Finally, I want to end the main part of the blog as it began with another look at York City. Forest's demise from the heights of forty years ago pale into insignificance compared to the depths to which York have plummeted. So, let's not forget them.
Martin O'Neill 1979-1999
OK, Now I want to step back to that night in February 1979 and look at what happened to Martin after the arrival of Trevor Francis and also to complete the report of his impressive international record at Northern Ireland.
Let's cover that first.
So, in February 1979 I watched Martin O'Neill's 27th cap for Northern Ireland at Wembley. It would be one of only two times I'd see him in the green shirt of his home country. Ironically both were 4-0 defeats against England.
As the table below shows, Martin wasn't even half way through his international career at that stage. He would go on to receive 64 caps for Northern Ireland.
It's an impressive record by anyone's standards - even that of the great George Best.
George Best scored one more goal (9) than Martin O'Neill's career but he clearly didn't give as much attention to playing for Northern Ireland as his undoubted talents warranted. Best ended up with 37 caps, O'Neill with 64.
As I mentioned earlier, despite six years when their international careers overlapped, they only played in the same team twice.
The highlight of Martin's international career was undoubtedly captaining Northern Ireland during their amazing appearance at the 1982 World Cup finals in Spain. Under Billy Bingham, the side overachieved, beating hosts Spain 1-0 in Valencia to reach the second group stages. Bizarrely, that world cup had no knock out rounds as had been the case before and ever since.
By then, of course, Martin was at Norwich City, having been unceremoniously dumped by Brain Clough despite scoring two goals at home to Arsenal in his final match. (More on that later.)
Here is Northern Ireland's record in Group 5 at the World Cup finals, 1982...
Let's cover that first.
So, in February 1979 I watched Martin O'Neill's 27th cap for Northern Ireland at Wembley. It would be one of only two times I'd see him in the green shirt of his home country. Ironically both were 4-0 defeats against England.
As the table below shows, Martin wasn't even half way through his international career at that stage. He would go on to receive 64 caps for Northern Ireland.
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| Martin O'Neill's international playing record. |
It's an impressive record by anyone's standards - even that of the great George Best.
George Best scored one more goal (9) than Martin O'Neill's career but he clearly didn't give as much attention to playing for Northern Ireland as his undoubted talents warranted. Best ended up with 37 caps, O'Neill with 64.
As I mentioned earlier, despite six years when their international careers overlapped, they only played in the same team twice.
Copa Mundial de Fútbol – España 82
The highlight of Martin's international career was undoubtedly captaining Northern Ireland during their amazing appearance at the 1982 World Cup finals in Spain. Under Billy Bingham, the side overachieved, beating hosts Spain 1-0 in Valencia to reach the second group stages. Bizarrely, that world cup had no knock out rounds as had been the case before and ever since.
By then, of course, Martin was at Norwich City, having been unceremoniously dumped by Brain Clough despite scoring two goals at home to Arsenal in his final match. (More on that later.)
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| Martin O'Neill at the World Cup in Spain 1982 |
Here is Northern Ireland's record in Group 5 at the World Cup finals, 1982...
Here are the highlights of their incredible win against Spain...
Northern Ireland then won the right to play two more games, against Austria and France in the next qualifying group.
Alas, it wasn't to be as they lost 4-1 to France. Here are the highlights of that match...
.
France were knocked out in the semi finals by West Germany who would, famously, lose 3-1 to the great Italy side which starred Paulo Rossi. England, of course, were gallantly unsuccessful - the only team to go through the tournament undefeated but were eliminated in the second group stage because they could only draw 0-0 with both hosts Spain and West Germany.
O'Neill would keep his place in the squad for another two years after that World Cup pinnacle but the side would never reach those heights again. He won his last eight caps whilst playing for Forest's most local rivals, Notts County - but most of his 64 caps (36 of them) were won whilst playing for Forest.
There was still about another two years of Martin's time at Forest, and I plan to cover most of that next season when looking at Forest's retention of the European Cup, but I think it's perhaps a pertinent time to report on how O'Neill was unceremoniously sent on his way in February 1981, Cloughie having agreed a fee (of £264,000 - a profit to Forest of £239,000) from Norwich City for him. After ten years at the club, O'Neill was approaching 300 league appearances but it was a landmark he wouldn't reach. His last game for Forest was a 3-1 win at home, ironically, to Arsenal. As if to further question Brian's intellect, O'Neill scored two goals that day.
I went to that game, as indeed I did most of his games. So although I missed his first appearance, I saw his third, his last, and almost 80% of the games in between.
So, as we stand today (21st February 2019) Martin O'Neill is the 18th most capped player for Northern Ireland, a long way behind Pat Jennings, but well ahead of George Best!
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| All time Northern Ireland Caps |
Martin O'Neill made over 430 league appearances for five clubs in a club career that spanned 13 years.
I saw all but two of Martin O'Neill's 48 goals for Forest - 96% of them!
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| Martin O'Neill's (League) playing career |
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| 13 league appearances for Manchester City, 66 for Norwich and 64 for Notts County |
Manager Martin
After such a long and distinguished career, playing under one or two of the biggest names in football management, no-one could begrudge O'Neill the expectation that some club might have been interested in appointing him as manager. Indeed, he applied for many jobs, lots of them in the third and forth divisions but wasn't even offered an interview.Starting to think his days in football were over, Martin decided to get involved with an insurance company as a salesman and was doing pretty well at it. He even got a job for his mate, John Robertson at the same firm, at one point, before he got finally a break and someone decided to give him a go at managing a football team.
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| Martin's journey into Football Management |
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| Grantham Town F. C. |
His name was Tony Balfe and he'd just taken over as chairman at Grantham F.C. who were then in step three of the football league pyramid, the Beazer Homes League Midland division. O'Neill was confident he could get the club into the Conference and he got the job. I can't think how he wouldn't, if one is to believe Tony Balfe's story that he was a Forest fan and O'Neill was one of his idols.
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| Grantham F.C. - before Martin O'Neill |
Despite getting help from ex-team mates, like John Robertson, Ian Bowyer, Kenny Burns and Terry Curran, O'Neill wasn't able to get Grantham Town promoted in his first season.
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| Terry Curran and Martin O'Neill at Grantham |
Frustratingly, Grantham Town missed out by just one point to the Birmingham club, Moor Green, the club that recently rose out of a kind of merger with Solihull Borough to form Solihull Moors, who currently (as of 21st February 2019) top the Conference.
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| O'Neill's first season in management - not a bad start |
Football, at this level, is a bit like the wild west, with players being "tapped" left right and center. Grantham were accused of doing that by signing Gary Crosby from Lincoln United. Gary would go on to an exciting, if short career with Nottingham Forest.
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| Only 9 games for Grantham, then 152 for Forest |
Slight diversion here... Crosby is famous for his cheeky goal against Manchester City in Forest's 1-0 win at the City Ground on 3rd March 1990, when he headed the ball from out of goalkeeper Andy Dibble's (single) hand and knocked the ball into an empty net.
Here's the incident with classic comments on it from Howard Kendall, Gary Lineker, George Courtney and ... Jimmy Greaves. Lavely!!!
Anyway, the (alleged) "tapping" worked both ways, though, and a key player in Grantham's side, Glenn Beech was picked up by nearby Boston United, then of the Conference and Grantham couldn't afford a decent replacement for him. So, Grantham never quite reached the heights of O'Neill's first season in their second.
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| Second season - not quite as good. |
Still, despite not winning promotion at Grantham, the signs were there for all to see that O'Neill knew what he was doing. A 68.5% points ratio (Played 84, Won 50, Drawn 15 lost 19) is pretty good by anyone's reckoning.
Meanwhile, just 30 or so miles west of Grantham, in Shepshed, was another small midlands club who were having ambitious plans of reaching the Conference themselves. They had another wealthy (wealthier than Balfe, it would seem) flamboyant, chairman called Maurice Clayton - plus they had been managed by a former Forest team mate of Martin's Ian Story-Moore.
So, in July 1989, Martin O'Neill became the manager of Shepshed Charterhouse (now called "Dynamo"), a team that were, technically, a level above Grantham Town in the football league pyramid. Grantham were in the midland division of the southern league (step 3), while Shepshed were in the Northern Premier League itself, step 2 - although they were struggling.
Martin only stayed in the job four months. Strangely, for O'Neill's reputation today, it seems he was sacked for not committing 100% to the club as he had continued to work in the field of insurance. It might seem bizarre from today's perspective, but Martin had hardly been swept off his feet with football management job offers and, being a sensible chap, he wanted to work hard and earn more money.
More fool Shepshed... and Grantham, I say.
Still, it was only another four months after that when Alan Parry got him to head south to High Wycombe to manage the then famous non-league side, Wycombe Wanderers in February 1990.
How that happened was another strange story. O'Neill bumped into Parry one night in a gents' at Carrow Road. Parry was commentating on a match and O'Neill was there as a revered spectator.
Whilst taking a leak, they chatted. Coincidentally, Wycombe Wanderers were looking for a new manager and were holding interviews that day. Martin expressed his frustration that he didn't know about it so Alan Parry promised to get in touch with chairman Ivor Beeks to see if there was a chance they'd interview O'Neill.
Beeks told Parry that they'd already made an offer to Kenny Swain and he'd accepted, so that seemed to be the end of that.
However, just hours later, Swain having returned to his then current club, Crewe Alexandra and told them of his intention to leave, was offered a position as assistant manager. So Swain called Wycombe to tell them he'd changed his mind.
So, the door was re-opened and Martin was interviewed and won the club over. Apparently O'Neill was paid one of the highest salaries for a non-league manager at the time, some £25,000 per year.
As a "member" at Wycombe Wanderers during Martin's time there, I'd often bump into Alan Parry and even went to his house once because he wanted me to do a database for him. Unfortunately he was a Apple Mac user and at the time there were limited options there (for me, anyway) as I'm a Microsoft Windows Access/SQL Server guy. Still, Parry always impressed me greatly. He is the only other person (than myself) that I know of, that owns every Rothmans Football Yearbook!
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| Martin O'Neill with Alan Parry |
The rest, as they say, is history and as it's been covered very well elsewhere, I'll skip the rest of the Martin O'Neill management story.
I think my self very privileged to have witnessed most (78.9%, 225 out of 285) of Martin's playing career at Forest (and all but two of his 48 goals), but also the real start of his managerial career at Wycombe Wanderers.
Suffice it to report this summary again which shows that O'Neill's management record has been consistently better than almost all of Forest's best throughout their history.
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| O'Neill's record - better than all but the best in Forest's history |
What about Trevor? What happened to him?
Ok, enough about Martin O'Neill for now (but I'll return to him before the end, though, don't worry!) Having looked at Martin's international career and how his time at Forest ended, I feel obliged to do a similar thing with Trevor Francis.
Trevor's first full appearance for Forest was just a few days later, on 3rd March 1979, away at Ipswich.
I went to that, which was my first visit to Portman Road, my 53rd Ground.
Which started to put me back on the trajectory to see all 92 soon.
Trevor's first full appearance for Forest was just a few days later, on 3rd March 1979, away at Ipswich.
I went to that, which was my first visit to Portman Road, my 53rd Ground.
Which started to put me back on the trajectory to see all 92 soon.
Like the journalists we saw earlier, the editors of the Ipswich Town programme also seem to have decided that Francis would be playing and who he'd be replacing...
... but, as it happened, it would be Tony Woodcock who made way, and Martin O'Neill started alongside Francis. This, in fact would be a recurring pattern. It happened another 12 times in the rest of that season, and 26 (17 League, 4 League Cup, 1 F.A. Cup and 4 European Cup) games in 1979-80. In fact Martin O'Neill and Trevor Francis were part of the same squad for more than the next two years.
The Teams
Ipswich Town
1 Paul Cooper, 2 George Burley, 3 Mick Mills, 4 Frans Thijssen, 5 Russell Osman, 6 Terry Butcher, 7 John Wark, 8 Arnold Muhren, 9 Paul Mariner, 10 Alan Brazil, 11 Clive Woods.
Goals: Alan Brazil 1.
Nottingham Forest
1 Peter Shilton, 2 Viv Anderson, 3 Frank Clark, 4 John McGovern, 5 Larry Lloyd, 6 David Needham, 7 Martin O'Neill, 8 Archie Gemmill, 9 Garry Birtles, 10 Trevor Francis, 11 John Robertson.
Goals : Garry Birtles 1.
Attendance: 27,198
Here's the match report...
Liverpool slipped up by not winning at strugglers, Chelsea, so Everton were able to close the gap at the top to just two points
Here are the highlights of Liverpool's 0-0 draw at Stamford Bridge...
And here is Manchester City beating Bolton 2-1...
So, the table at the end of the day looked like this...
Garry Birtles' goal put him joint 3rd in the first division top scorers' chart.
Forest were now 4th in current form table...
And they kept in touch with Liverpool in the composite 1977-79 table.
Obvious I don't want to steal the thunder of a key report or two about Trevor's time at Forest 40 years ago but it might be a good point to pay tribute to a long career, where he made 627 appearances and scored 232 goals.
If we fast forward to 1981, it was only seven months after Martin's exodus from club that Trevor Francis was sold too. In his last home game for us Francis, like O'Neill, scored two goals. He got both in Forest's 2-1 win in the season opener against Southampton.
Altogether, Trevor Francis only made 70 appearances for Forest (scoring 28 goals) compared to Martin O'Neill's 285. Francis was at Forest for 941 days (just over 2.5 years) and for 79% of that time, Martin O'Neill was there too.
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| Francis - 26 appearances & 12 goals for Man City |
Francis was sold - ironically to Manchester City (for £1,200,000 so Forest did make a profit), where he made his debut alongside... none other than Martin O'Neill!! Francis again scored two that day, in a 3-1 win at Stoke City. The two would play in the same team five more times in the league and once more in the League Cup before Martin O'Neill left the club to return to Norwich City. Francis left at the end of the season too, heading for Italy, where he would play for the next five years. Francis made 68 appearances for Sampdoria and Atalanta.
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| Sampdoria - 68 games, 17 goals |
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| Atalanta - 21 games, 1 goal |
After this, Francis came back to the UK and made 18 more appearances for Glasgow Rangers, having been signed by Graeme Souness, but Francis did not score a single goal.
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| 18 games for Rangers |
After a brief trip down under, where he made three appearances for Wollongong City (not Wolves in those days), Francis returned to England for a career swansong at QPR (32 appearances and 12 goals) and then, last of all, at Sheffield Wednesday (76 appearances and 5 goals.)
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| 32 at QPR (12 goals) |
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| 76 at Wednesday, 5 goals |
Here's a summary of Francis' long league career...
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| Trevor Francis' (League) club appearance record |
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| Trevor Francis - Only 11% Red |
Trevor Francis v Martin O'Neill
I can't resist trying to make comparisons like this - it is, after all, the very stuff of sports banter.I know that when it comes to his electrifying pace and goal scoring record, Martin O'Neill can't be compared with Trevor Francis. But their careers overlapped so closely I think statistical comparisons can, and indeed should, be made.
In terms of matches played and goals scored, Trevor Francis had a better, and more varied career than Martin O'Neill. His tally of 627 (league) appearances is 44% more than Martin's 435. This is probably largely because Francis started playing professionally earlier (at the age of 16, rather than 19) and finished later (at 40 rather than 33.)
Here are some more numbers: These figures (to a large extent) also include cup matches. I always find it frustrating that most player stat totals only seem to include league matches, making it tedious to go and manually find and add in the cup games. I have tried to do so below where I can (certainly for Martin O'Neill's record) but I couldn't find similar data for Francis when overseas, so these figures are not 100% correct.
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| Francis made more appearances over many more years but O'Neill played more games/season |
.. and here's a chart plotting their two most impressive club careers next to each other.
Despite this longevity, Trevor Francis only made 52 appearances for England, compared to O'Neill's 64.
Of course, although it sounds a bit mean to say so, getting capped for England has to be more of an achievement than getting capped for Northern Ireland.
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| Francis' England caps spread over four clubs |
Most Capped Forest Players
In terms of caps whilst playing for Forest, Martin O'Neill is way ahead of Trevor Francis and is now only bettered by two - Des Walker and, of course, Stuart Pearce.Stuart Pearce overtook Martin, as Forest's most capped player (whilst playing for the club) on 25th May 1991 when he was picked to play Argentina in a friendly (well it was called the "England Challenge Cup" but I don't think anyone was fooled). This took him to 37 caps (all of them at Forest at the time) and so ended Martin O'Neill's reign at the top of the table, which had lasted for over 13 and a half years, since Martin himself took the spot from Liam O'Kane.
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| Most caps for Forest table - surely, no-one will ever overtake Psycho! ('for Forest' column in gray italics - are estimates only) |
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Now after all this debate of international caps and million pound signings... let's not forget York City.
York City in more recent times
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| York City Division Four Champions 1983-84 |
For a couple of seasons, York challenged towards the top of the third tier before they started to slip back again. In 1987-88 they were relegated back to the fourth tier again.
City’s last hurrah in the Football League was to reach the Fourth division playoff final in 1992/93. This was York City's first ever visit to Wembley Stadium where they beat Crewe Alexandra in a penalty shoot out.
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| York made the 4th tier play-offs in 1993 |
Here are the highlights of their victory against Crewe Alexandra.
After a few more years in the third tier, York were relegated back to the basement of the football league again in 1999, where they remained for five years.
So, as Forest's era at the top ended, York City, at least at that point, were at least still in the football league.
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| In the years 1979 - 1999 Forest, finished well above York City |
Things soon got worse for York, though. In 2004, they finished bottom and were thus relegated to the Conference ending 69 successive seasons in the league football.
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| York City - relegated from the football League |
In eight years in the Conference, York City reached the promotion play offs three times. In 2006/07 they lost at the semi-final stage and in 2009/10 went down to Oxford United in the final and then, on May 20th 2012, they won promotion back to the Football League again after beating Luton Town 2-1 at Wembley. This latter game marked the club’s 4th appearance at the national stadium in four years and completed a league and cup double that season.
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| York City win promotion back to the league |
The York City manager at the time was an old Forest man, Gary Mills, who made his debut for us at the age of 16 against Arsenal in 1978
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| Ex-Forest Gary Mills leads York back to the league in 2012 It didn't last long. |
After four years in the Football League's fourth tier, York dropped back into the Conference finishing in 24th place in League 2 in 2015/16. The following season City suffered a second successive relegation to join a sad bunch of ex-league teams struggling in the National League Northern Division, step two, in the football league pyramid: Stockport County, Bradford Park Avenue, Chester, Southport, Darlington and Hereford.
As I write only Stockport County and Chester seem to have any chance of promotion and eventually restoring their football league status.
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| Current (as of 21st Feb 2019) National League North |
't'll be reyt. Cum on, York!
But to end this post on, there's only one topic to discuss of course... and that is the new era of Martin O'Neill (and Roy Keane, of course) at Forest today.
Martin O'Neill at Forest Today
Having paid respect to York City, I do have to finish this nostalgic post with a quick look at the state of play Nottingham Forest are in today because I am genuinely excited at what I consider a realistic prospect of a return to the top tier under our new management pair of Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane.
When I started writing these blogs it was purely from a nostalgic point of view. I feel sorry for the current generations of Forest fans who have not had the fortune to see the incredible glory we older fans witnessed, and took for granted. So my thinking was to record as much as I could, as a kind of a gift to future generations, as I had resigned myself to thinking that Forest might never return to anything like that success in my lifetime.
However, since Martin O'Neill has returned, I can't help but feeling very optimistic about Forest once more.
When the appointment was made I was over the moon, as they say, but it quickly became apparent that this ecstasy wasn't shared by everyone. Many younger fans even questioned whether it was the right decision at all. They saw "O'Neill for Karanka" as downgrade!
This is crazy to me. I mean, seriously, what has Aitor ever done? Got Middlesbrough promoted, right? This, after being given a lot of time, and money. Then he was sacked a few months later as Boro were destined for the quick drop back.
That's it!
O'Neill has won promotion three times.
How many trophies has Karanka won? Zero. O'Neill 13. How many Wembley appearances? Zero. O'Neill seven (with six wins). How has Karanka done at international level? He hasn't. O'Neill and Keane guided Ireland to the Euro 2016 round of 16, beating Germany and Italy on the way - a squad half made up of players form the Championship. Ireland went up 27 places in the FIFA ranking under their management.
There is no comparison.
My Boro-supporting mate, "Boro", reminded me that, to these young whipper-snappers, Martin O'Neill must seem like a bit of an old fogey. He is 66 years old, after all.
It's a fair point. When you consider that when Brian Clough joined Forest, 44 years ago, he was not even 40 years old, it does put this into some kind of perspective. It got me thinking, at the time, how many managers were anywhere near as old as Martin O'Neill is today?
None...
These young "X-Box experts" are quick to tell you that the "game has changed" as if Martin O'Neill has had his head stuck in a bucket for twenty years. I doubt it, myself, frankly. The money has changed, the pitches and quality of the sports science has, but the rules haven't. It's still the same game as it was.
One thing that has changed that the younger generations might want to consider is the life expectancy of people, including experienced football managers!
Alex Ferguson was 72 when he finally let go of the reigns at Manchester United. Arsene Wenger retired at 68 and there are currently two Premier League managers older than Martin O'Neill. Neil Warnock, manager of Cardiff City is 70. Roy Hodgson is well on the way to being 72.
Besides, Roy Keane is only 47.
Anyway, I'm confident that in a few weeks, when Martin & Roy have had a little time to instill their methods and psychology, even the most skeptical young Forest fan will start to see it the way I do.
When the appointment was made I was over the moon, as they say, but it quickly became apparent that this ecstasy wasn't shared by everyone. Many younger fans even questioned whether it was the right decision at all. They saw "O'Neill for Karanka" as downgrade!
This is crazy to me. I mean, seriously, what has Aitor ever done? Got Middlesbrough promoted, right? This, after being given a lot of time, and money. Then he was sacked a few months later as Boro were destined for the quick drop back.
That's it!
O'Neill has won promotion three times.
How many trophies has Karanka won? Zero. O'Neill 13. How many Wembley appearances? Zero. O'Neill seven (with six wins). How has Karanka done at international level? He hasn't. O'Neill and Keane guided Ireland to the Euro 2016 round of 16, beating Germany and Italy on the way - a squad half made up of players form the Championship. Ireland went up 27 places in the FIFA ranking under their management.
There is no comparison.
My Boro-supporting mate, "Boro", reminded me that, to these young whipper-snappers, Martin O'Neill must seem like a bit of an old fogey. He is 66 years old, after all.
It's a fair point. When you consider that when Brian Clough joined Forest, 44 years ago, he was not even 40 years old, it does put this into some kind of perspective. It got me thinking, at the time, how many managers were anywhere near as old as Martin O'Neill is today?
None...
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| Age of Martin O'Neill compared to Clough's contemporaries in 1975. |
These young "X-Box experts" are quick to tell you that the "game has changed" as if Martin O'Neill has had his head stuck in a bucket for twenty years. I doubt it, myself, frankly. The money has changed, the pitches and quality of the sports science has, but the rules haven't. It's still the same game as it was.
One thing that has changed that the younger generations might want to consider is the life expectancy of people, including experienced football managers!
Alex Ferguson was 72 when he finally let go of the reigns at Manchester United. Arsene Wenger retired at 68 and there are currently two Premier League managers older than Martin O'Neill. Neil Warnock, manager of Cardiff City is 70. Roy Hodgson is well on the way to being 72.
Besides, Roy Keane is only 47.
Anyway, I'm confident that in a few weeks, when Martin & Roy have had a little time to instill their methods and psychology, even the most skeptical young Forest fan will start to see it the way I do.
Forest Today!
So, from this blog on, I think I'll write a little about current events too, to bring us right up to date.
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| Return of the Legends |
Their first match was at home to THE in form team at that moment, Bristol City, who were on their way to winning seven successive games and, as most expected, the Robbins largely tore our makeshift defence apart in the first half. Martin steadied the ship at half time but Forest still conceded the only goal.
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| Martin is back, Martin is back... Hello! |
Next up were Wigan Athletic and Martin managed to find a way to win. Three great goals overcame a Wigan side that played well in patched and, again, caused us problems at the back.
Birmingham City away next and Forest had been bolstered with four more signings from the January window as well as the addition of Roy Keane, freshly installed as Martin O'Neill's assistant. The problem in the center of defence now started to look plugged with the excellent new signing of the Swede Alex Milosovic alongside the Tunisian Yohan Benalouane, even though as the match started, the two of them had only had 180 minutes game time for Forest between them. Forest succumbed to some bad luck. Lolley hit the post early on but at the other end, Birmingham scored to put the pressure on in a scrappy game. As Forest pressed for an equaliser, Birmingham broke away and scored a winner at then end Benalouane opted to handle on the line to try to stop the ball going in - but ended up getting sent off as the Blues extended their lead and Forest's misery.
Next, another home game against another in-form side, Brentford. The bees swarmed all over Forest for long periods of the game attacking another reshuffled back line to cope with the suspended Benaloune. Martin gave a start to a young lad most of us had hardly heard of - Ryan Yates - and he played a blinder. Forest's style, though, is now more direct and despite Brentford 70% possession, we carved out more clear cut chances. Grabban scored early which explains much of Brentford's possession stats and new signing Leo Bonatini should have made it two before half time. In the second half, both Goncalves and Grabban had great opportunities to extend the lead before Grabban was awarded a penalty - but missed for the 4th time this season. Some relief was at last attained when Molla Wague - another new signing - scored his first goal for the club. Brentford came back with a goal though to keep me biting my nails to the end.
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| A touch of the Roy Keane about this lad |
Then, Forest were robbed of a great and deserved victory at the Hawthorns when referee Lee Mason was conned by Dwight Gayle into giving Albion an 89th minute penalty, duly converted by Jay Rodriguez. A minute or two later, down the other end, Joe Lolley clearly had his shirt pulled back as he lined up to shoot - but no penalty was awarded. Forest had twice taken the lead with goals from the new young lad, Ryan Yates. (OK, the first was technically an own goal but it was Yates who applied the last touch before Johansen knocked it into his own net.) I thought it was impressive, typically gutsy performance from an O'Neill side and one that certainly confirms to me that, at last, the club are heading in the right direction. Reaching the play offs might be a bridge too far this season (especially after we've been denied four points through dodgy refereeing decisions in response to Leeds and Albion cheating) but, surely, we must be among the favourites to go up next if these two settle in.
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| Lolley's shirt pulled, but no penalty given |
Three days later, Forest's referees curse struck again when what looked like a perfectly legitimate goal was ruled out at Preston. I thought Forest deserved to win that one too. So O'Neill and Keane could be have been four points down on what they would have been had it not been for some dodgy referring.
Then, just a few minutes ago (as I write this) Forest secured a vital 1-0 win against our bitter rivals, Derby County, to close the gap with the top six to just three points (albeit with Bristol City having two games in hand).
There are still twelve games to go, and if Forest can just get themselves on a winning run we could still end up in the play offs and, who knows, that long dreamed of return to the top flight.
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| Yohan Benalouane makes it 1-0 to Forest after 76 seconds in the Derby derby. |
Right now, Forest's record against the others in the top eight is only bettered by Leeds United. Clearly we have nothing to fear from any team in the championship. If Forest can make the play offs, we have as good a chance as anyone to get that elusive third promotion spot.
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| Top eight in the championship - games against each other |
I'm confident, anyway. I maintain that O'Neill/Keane is the best managerial appointment the club have made in 44 years. If I'm right, we'll see the proof in front of our eyes as they shoot inexorably up my all-time Forest manager's table.
Here it is at the moment, ranked by first seven games in charge...
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| O'Neill & Keane already in the top third of all-time Forest manager starts (first seven games) |
Martin O'Neill!!!
Stoke 2 Forest 0
Last night I was very disappointed that Forest lost 2-0 at Stoke but I still think it was a decent performance. We created more chances than Stoke but they were more clinical in front of goal than we were. I still think we'll make the play offs. It's not over till it's over.
So the revised All-Time Forest managers table sees Martin & Roy slip two places in the record of the first eight games in charge.
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