40 years ago, I watched Forest progress in the League Cup and therefore take their first step in retaining the trophy they'd won for the first time the season before by beating mighty Liverpool 1-0 in a replay at Old Trafford after a tense 0-0 draw at Wembley a few days before. They beat second division Oldham Athletic in a replay at the City Ground after getting a 0-0 draw at Boundary Park in the original tie.
That 0-0 was Forest's fourth in five games at the start of the 1978-89 season (the other match was also drawn, 1-1 at home to Tottenham Hotspur) so clearly there were problems up front, especially since Clough and Taylor had bizarrely sold their top striker Peter Withe to Newcastle United just a couple of days after their home opener against Spurs. It seems the Forest management were pinning their hopes on a young striker who had performed well in the reserves last season, Steve Elliott. It wasn't looking good and this game would signal the last but one for the lad.
Here, I'll quickly review Forests four 0-0 draws since the Spurs game, and the first two rounds of the league cup. I'll also take a look at the history of Oldham Athletic and compare their form in our glory years, up to the end of 1999 which, of course, included a League Cup final between Forest and Oldham at Wembley just a few years after this one.
Previous Post: Tottenham Hotspur (Home) Division One
Martin O'Neill was in the list of First Division top scorers, but no-one else from Forest was...
So it was all set for the second round, when the "big boys" entered the competition.
And the biggest "boy" in the League Cup at that time was, us. As I said we'd drawn Oldham Athletic and drawn 0-0 at Boundary Park taking the game to a replay but before taking our place at the City Ground for the match, let's take a quick look at Oldham Athletic's long history.
Pine Villa Football Club were formed in 1895 - thirty years after Forest - but they changed their name to Oldham Athletic four years later.
They became professional straight away and played in the Lancashire Combination league for a few years before gaining admittance to the Football League in 1907.
They just missed out on promotion to the first division in their first season.
But under the astute management of David Ashworth, they soon did get to the top league and enjoyed their most successful period in the club's history.
Apart from one season where they were almost relegated back to the second division, Oldham were challenging at the right end of the table and looked destined to become one of Lancashire's footballing power houses before the First World War intervened.
The three season before the end of the war, then, would be the best period in the club's history.
The 'Lattics' had switched to Blue and white when they changed their name and, apart from a brief spell when they switched to orange and blue, this has remained the same throughout their history.
Another shock was Spurs losing at home to Swansea City, then of the third division, in a replay at White Hart Lane in front of almost 34,000.
Another notable result was Everton's 8-0 thrashing of Wimbledon at Goodison Park.
That 0-0 was Forest's fourth in five games at the start of the 1978-89 season (the other match was also drawn, 1-1 at home to Tottenham Hotspur) so clearly there were problems up front, especially since Clough and Taylor had bizarrely sold their top striker Peter Withe to Newcastle United just a couple of days after their home opener against Spurs. It seems the Forest management were pinning their hopes on a young striker who had performed well in the reserves last season, Steve Elliott. It wasn't looking good and this game would signal the last but one for the lad.
Here, I'll quickly review Forests four 0-0 draws since the Spurs game, and the first two rounds of the league cup. I'll also take a look at the history of Oldham Athletic and compare their form in our glory years, up to the end of 1999 which, of course, included a League Cup final between Forest and Oldham at Wembley just a few years after this one.
Previous Post: Tottenham Hotspur (Home) Division One
Drab Start to the Season for Forest
After Forest's sparkling 5-0 Charity Shield opener against F.A. Cup winners Ipswich Town at Wembley, everything was looking good for another great year for Forest as they started their defence of their only ever League Title win. Against Argentinian start-studded Spurs, they looked a little jaded but the shock sale of Peter Withe in the week that followed seemed to set the alarm bells ringing a little. Something wasn't quite right and Forest spluttered in the next three league, and one cup, games, failing to score a single goal - but not conceding either.
The day after the Peter Withe sale to Newcastle United, Forest played Coventry City, at Highfield Road, the place where we'd confirmed the title win last season. Coventry were a good side in those days, let's not forget - so another 0-0 draw there was actually a good result. Making his debut that night, in place of Peter Withe, was Steven Elliot.
Not quite 20 years old, Elliott had done well in the reserves for the last couple of years and was top scorer ahead of another local lad called Gary Birtles. Brian Clough and Peter Taylor's judgement was on the line here. Talent spotters extraordinaire? Not here, it would seem.
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| Elliot made just 4 league appearances for Forest that season |
Ominously for us, Liverpool brushed Ipswich Town aside on their own pitch 3-0 that night. So, after two games, Forest were already two points behind our big rivals in the league and we knew, of course, that it would be Liverpool that we'd have to face as the first hurdle in the European Cup - exactly seven days from now.
Interestingly, Spurs, who looked so glitzy at the City Ground on Saturday, came unstuck at home to Aston Villa, losing 4-1 in front of almost 48,000.
The Saturday after that, Forest spluttered again, drawing 0-0 at Loftus Road, home of Queen's Park Rangers. Meanwhile Liverpool were destroying anything put before them, beating another title contender, Manchester City, 4-1 away. This was getting seriously worrying. Liverpool were already three points ahead of us, and we'd only played three games.
Here are the highlights of that match: Liverpool thrash Manchester City at Maine Road 4-1.
West Bromwich Albion and Coventry City both won comfortably too, scoring goals with ease as we choked.
In the following midweek Forest started another defence, this time of the League Cup - that we'd won against Liverpool after drawing 0-0 at Wembley and then winning at Old Trafford in the replay.
Forest had drawn Oldham Athletic away. Not an easy match, by any means, Oldham were a mid-table second division side, as Forest had been just three years earlier.
The score? You've guessed it - another 0-0. More on the other scores of that round later.
So, back to the league and another home match against good opposition - this time against West Bromwich Albion, who had won all three games and scored seven goals.
Again, another 0-0 draw.
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| Steve Elliott against West Brom |
The most amazing score of the day was at Anfield where Liverpool faced Tottenham Hotspur, a team including Ossie Ardiles, Ricardo Villa and Glen Hoddle. Liverpool slaughtered them 7-0.
If ever the term "sending out a message" was appropriate, this was it!
Forest had spluttered to four points from four games, scoring just one (Martin O'Neill) goal in the process in defence of their title, whereas Liverpool had won all four and scored an incredible sixteen goals, conceding just two.
Eek! I don't think many Forest fans were looking forward to meeting such a team in the first round of the European Cup next week. Things could get very ugly here.
Here's extended highlights of Liverpool's amazing win against Spurs...
Liverpool 7 Spurs 0
League Table
So this was the scary looking league table on 6th September 1978. No-one, not even bottom of the table QPR, had scored as few goals as us. The only consolations were that Spurs fans must have been even more scared than us and Derby County were struggling too.
Martin O'Neill was in the list of First Division top scorers, but no-one else from Forest was...
League Cup 1978-78 Begins
So, what about the League Cup?
That had actually begun on 12th August, the day of the Charity Shield match. The first round was a two-legged contest and almost all the ties were decided before a ball had been kicked in the league.
Notts County beat Scunthorpe both away and at home but Mansfield lost to Darlington. Some of the attendances (in the first round remember) were amazing. Two topped 9,000.
So it was all set for the second round, when the "big boys" entered the competition.
And the biggest "boy" in the League Cup at that time was, us. As I said we'd drawn Oldham Athletic and drawn 0-0 at Boundary Park taking the game to a replay but before taking our place at the City Ground for the match, let's take a quick look at Oldham Athletic's long history.
Oldham Athletic History
Pine Villa Football Club were formed in 1895 - thirty years after Forest - but they changed their name to Oldham Athletic four years later.They became professional straight away and played in the Lancashire Combination league for a few years before gaining admittance to the Football League in 1907.
They just missed out on promotion to the first division in their first season.
But under the astute management of David Ashworth, they soon did get to the top league and enjoyed their most successful period in the club's history.
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| Oldham's first season in the league |
Apart from one season where they were almost relegated back to the second division, Oldham were challenging at the right end of the table and looked destined to become one of Lancashire's footballing power houses before the First World War intervened.
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| David Ashworth |
In the last season before the first world war, Oldham finished runners up to Everton, their best ever season in the league. Forest, meanwhile, were struggling in the second division so for two years running, Oldham ended 36 places higher than us in the league.
The club were now under the management of Herbert Bamlett as Ashworth had moved onto Stockport County, only to get poached by non other than Liverpool, where he would take Liverpool to some of their early success.
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| Herbert Bamlett - highest placed Oldham manager ever |
The 'Lattics' had switched to Blue and white when they changed their name and, apart from a brief spell when they switched to orange and blue, this has remained the same throughout their history.
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| HistoricKits.com |
Apart from this brief period of glory - including an F.A. Cup semi final appearance in 1913, when they lost 1-0 to eventual winners, Aston Villa - Oldham would spend most of their history in the second tier or below.
They reached their nadir the season after Forest won the cup, when they finished second from bottom in the newly formed fourth division. Forest finished 13th in the top flight that year, so there was a gap of 76 league places between them, the biggest ever.
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| Oldham's worst ever season in the league |
So, for once, Forest have the upper hand in the historic comparison, finishing above Oldham on over 100 ocassions out of 115 - even before the reunification of Clough and Taylor.
From Oldham's relegation from the top tier in 1923, it would be 69 years before Joe Royle would lead them back again.
Forest v Oldham
So, this was serious. Forest had to find some form, especially in front of goal, and they needed to find it now. We had Arsenal at home on Saturday and then (bites nails) Liverpool at the City Ground in the first round of the European Cup in seven days time.
Clough, in a style not unlike Donald Trump, lambasted the players publicly in the media the night before the match. Only captain John McGovern was above criticism.
Forest's record against Oldham had been pretty good in the post war years so, come on you reds, let's beat this team and get back to winning ways.
The Programme
Here's the match day programme...
Match 274: Forest 197, Oldham 6, City Ground 140.
This was coming up to my 200th Forest game and, of course, I remember very little other than a blurry image of Oldham's blue shirts as I viewed from the Main Stand terracing.
At half time the bleak goal famine continued with the scores tied at 0-0 but something must have been said at half time (oh to be a fly on the wall that night) and soon after half time Forest scored their second, then their third, then their fourth and then their fifth goals of the season.
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| David Needham makes it 1-0 |
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| Kenny Burns makes it 2-0 with another header |
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| Tony Woodcock is brought down in the box, so... |
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| ...another Robbo penalty in his 91st consecutive game (out of 239). 4-0! |
The crucial statistic here, I think, is that none of the four were scored by Steve Elliott and it would seem that was the final straw for mssrs Clough and Taylor. Elliott would make just one more appearance for the club, ironically at Anfield against Liverpool.
Forest took their foot off the peddle towards the end and Oldham scored two late goals to make the score more respectable.
Forest took their foot off the peddle towards the end and Oldham scored two late goals to make the score more respectable.
Nottingham Forest
1 Peter Shilton, 2 Viv Anderson, 3 Colin Barrett, 4 John McGovern, 5 David Needham, 6 Kenny Burns, 7 Martin O'Neill, 8 Archie Gemmill, 9 Steve Elliott, 10 Tony Woodcock, 11 John Robertson.
Goals: David Needham 1, Kenny Burns 1, Tony Woodcock 1, John Robertson 1 (pen.).
Oldham Athletic
1 Peter McDonell, 2 Ronnie Blair, 3 Steven Edwards, 4 Graham Bell, 5 Keith Hicks, 6 John Hurst, 7 Carl Valentine, 8 Vic Halom, 9 Alan Young, 10 Les Chapman, 11 Steve Gardiner.
Goals : Vic Halom 1, Alan Young 1.
Substitutions: Jim Steel(12) came on for Carl Valentine (7).
Other Second Round Ties
Amazingly, considering their incredible start of season form, Liverpool had already been knocked out of the League Cup at Bramall Lane, home of Sheffield United.Another shock was Spurs losing at home to Swansea City, then of the third division, in a replay at White Hart Lane in front of almost 34,000.
Another notable result was Everton's 8-0 thrashing of Wimbledon at Goodison Park.
What Happened Next?
I'll return to the story of the 1978-79 season in the next blog but I'll finish this one with a look to the rest of the "glory years" under Clough & Taylor and beyond.
Most notable and apt for this post is the League Cup final clash between Forest and Oldham that was played at Wembley twelve years later.
By then, Joe Royle had become manager and transformed the club into a team feisty fighters who never gave up. From 1982 until 1994 he made Oldham a well respected club and one of the original members of the Premier League (or should it be "Greediership"?) in 1992
It was the season before that, as a second division club, that they made it to the final earning themselves a place at Wembley against us.
Most notable and apt for this post is the League Cup final clash between Forest and Oldham that was played at Wembley twelve years later.
By then, Joe Royle had become manager and transformed the club into a team feisty fighters who never gave up. From 1982 until 1994 he made Oldham a well respected club and one of the original members of the Premier League (or should it be "Greediership"?) in 1992
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| Oldham promoted back to the top flight after 69 years |
League Cup Final - Forest v Oldham 1990
On their way to the final, they'd beaten Arsenal and thrashed West Ham United 6-0 in the first of the two-legged semi final.
Here are the highlights...
By now, Clough was on his own again and had rebuilt a brand new side which included all time Forest heros such as Stuart Pearce, Nigel Clough, Des Walker and Steve Hodge.
Forest's run that season had started with a close win over Huddersfield Town, a 5-0 win over Crystal Palace in a replay, a 1-0 win over Everton at home, a glorious 3-2 win at White Hart Lane after a 2-2 draw at home in the quarter finals, followed by a 2-1 aggregate win over Coventry City in the semis.
Here are the highlights of Forest's win at Spurs.
And here are the highlights of the semi final against Coventry City...
As I was in the middle of my "being a good dad" phase, I sadly missed this game. Somehow, being married and a father of two (soon to be four) was sufficient distraction, even for me, to stop being a football fanatic.
I must have watched the game on the tely but I have no memory of it otherwise. At the time, I was smug, like most Forest fans, thinking that beating Oldham in the League Cup final was a bit of a formality. Our fourth win.
Here are the highlights of the final...
This was Forest's 4th League Cup win. More on their impressive stats there to follow.
So, in the 22 years from winning the league to the end of the millenium, Forest continued to punch above their weight but, remarkably, thanks to Joe Royle, they were still eclipsed by Oldham for two seasons. This was the first time Oldham had finished higher in the league than Forest in 59 years.
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