Forest put 4 past Villa to go past the 4th Round

With the apparent frustrations and/or wobbles in the league going on, it was nice for the Reds to escape from the pressure of being league leaders for a while and turn their attention to a cup competition. So, on the Tuesday following the West Brom game, Forest lined up at home to Aston Villa for the second time this season, in the League Cup 4th Round. We'd met earlier in September, notable for the debut of Peter Shilton. Forest had won that match 2-0 so there were reasons for optimism that Forest could break new territory tonight and reach the 5th Round of the League Cup for the first time.

More on the match later, but first, I want to pay more attention to Aston Villa's impressive cup record here as I focused on Peter Shilton last time.

Villa's F. A. Cup Cup Record

It might sound remarkable from today's perspective but when this match was played, Aston Villa undoubtedly had the best domestic cup record in England. They lead the winners tables for both the F.A. Cup and the League Cup.

The F.A. Cup had been contested 96 times before the season I am reviewing here. 39 different teams had won it altogether, since it started in 1871, including seven teams that are no longer (or were never) in the league. Aston Villa had won it more times than anyone else - seven occasions - although the last time was 1957, twenty-one years ago at the time.

Villa lead the F.A. Cup winners table in 1977

Villa won the F.A. Cup in 1887, 1895, 1897, 1905, 1913, 1920 & 1957. They were runners-Up... 1892, 1924. Only Newcastle and West Brom had played in more finals than Villa and only Albion had been in the semi-finals more.

Villa in the League Cup

The League Cup was relatively new and had only been contested 17 times. Only three clubs had won it more than once by then, and Villa were top of that list too, having won it three times. Furthermore, they'd won it twice in the last three seasons.

1961

Aston Villa were the first winners of the League Cup in 1960-61. Many teams (but not Forest, not this first season) didn't even take part. They played Rotherham United in a two legged final. Bizarrely the games were played in August and September, after the start of the next season. Rotherham United won the first leg (at Millmoor) 2-0 but lost 3-0 at Villa Park on September 5th 1961. Thus Villa were the first club to capture the odd three-handled trophy.

Villa beat Rotherham 3-0 at an odd-looking Villa Park to seal the first League Cup

So here's a good trivia question for you:

Q: Which finalist of a major English domestic competition played in the first round of the next seasons's competition just six days after they lost?

A: Rotherham United. Lost to Aston Villa in the League Cup final of 1960-61 on Tuesday, 5th September 1961 and then won in the First round (away to Darlington, 1-0) of the 1961-62 competition six days later, on Monday, 11th September.

1975

Villa's second League Cup win came in 1975 when they beat Norwich City 1-0 at Wembley in front of almost 96,000 fans in spectacular fashion. Best to watch this video clip to see what I mean...

It was a notable final too for Villa manager, Ron Saunders, as he was appearing in his third Wembley League Cup final in succession with three different clubs, losing previously with Norwich and Manchester City. The team that day included two of the players who would line up against Forest: Frank Carrodus and Brian Little. It also included Ray Graydon, the scorer of the penalty and Chico Hamilton.

1977

Villa were also the current holders of the League Cup having beat Everton in another amazing final, that went to 2 replays - the only time this has ever happened, and ever will, as now it seems penalty shoot outs are the preferred way of resolving such matters.

The first match, at Wembley played in front of a full house was a boring 0-0 draw. The first replay, played just four days later at Hillsborough in front of 55,000 was drawn 1-1. 

League Cup final, 2nd Replay

The second replay, at Old Trafford almost a month later, was much better. Brian Little grabbed the winner, his second, in the dying seconds. What a goal from Chris Nicholl too.

Forest's League Cup Record

By complete contrast, as reported before, Forest's record in the League Cup was astonishingly bad in 1977. As Forest lined up against Villa this evening, they were already equalling their record progress in the competition. They first made the 4th round in the inaugural season, that Villa won, losing 2-1 to Burnley at Turf Moor. Forest didn't even bother entering the competition for the four seasons from 1962-63 until 1965-66. They reached the 4th round for the second time when they lost to second division Oxford United 0-1 at home on 14th October 1969.

Considering that Villa were also on better current form than Forest in the league at that time, and Forest had dropped 5 points in their last 5 games, this was therefore by no means an easy game.

Villa were above us on current form too

The Teams

Chris Woods, again had to step in for the cup-tied Peter Shilton, but otherwise it was an unchanged side. The League Cup was taken much more seriously in those days. Villa too, played their full strength team.

Nottingham Forest
1 Chris Woods, 2 Viv Anderson, 3 Colin Barrett, 4 John McGovern, 5 Larry Lloyd, 6 Kenny Burns, 7 Martin O'Neill, 8 Ian Bowyer, 9 Peter Withe, 10 Tony Woodcock, 11 John Robertson.
Goals: Viv Anderson 1, Larry Lloyd 1, Peter Withe 1, Tony Woodcock 1.


Aston Villa
1 Jimmy Rimmer, 2 John Gidman, 3 Gordon Smith, 4 Leighton Phillips, 5 Kenneth McNaught, 6 Dennis Mortimer, 7 John Deehan, 8 Brian Little, 9 Andy Gray, 10 Alex Cropley, 11 Frank Carrodus.
Goals : Brian Little 1, Frank Carrodus 1.

Substitutions: Gordan Cowans(12) came on for John Deehan (7).

Attendance 29,333

The Game

The final score was actually flattering to Villa as Forest were 4-0 up with just over ten minutes to play. On a very cold night, the tricky trees simply blew Villa away - and were 3-0 up in 25 minutes. Larry Lloyd scored with a header after just seven minutes. Anderson added a second six minutes later with a header set up by Robbo.

Anderson scores with his head on 13 minutes

Peter Withe finally scored to break his barren run after 25 minutes and McGovern was denied just before half time by a brilliant save from Jimmy Rimmer.

In the second half center half Ken McNaught goofed with a terrible back pass to his goalkeeper which was intercepted by Tony Woodcock to add Forest's fourth.

Woodcock makes it 4-0

Forest continued to press but after an hour, with the game just about won, they did ease off and let Villa back into the game. Andy Gray hit the post and then in the 79th minute Brian Little scored a brilliant volley to get some consolation for Villa. With just five minutes to go , young Chris Wood (the first proper player I ever saw younger than I am) made a cock up of his own and allowed Frank Carrodus to reduce the deficit further. Forest woke up after that and could have easily added a fifth before the end.

Job done! So for the first time in their history, Forest were in the League Cup quarter finals.

Other 4th Round Matches

Arsenal beat Hull City 5-1, Manchester City won 2-1 at Ipswich, in-form Everton won 3-1 at Sheffield Wednesday, Leeds United won at Bolton Wanderers and Liverpool beat Coventry City 2-0 at Highfield Road after a 2-2 draw at Anfield. The other two quarter final places were taken by Third Division (but league leaders) Wrexham, who beat Swindon. The lowest placed team, also from the Third Division, Bury, were the round's giant killers, disposing of West Bromwich Albion 1-0.

Bravely into uncharted territory: The 5th Round!

Clearly, of the seven others in the draw, Forest would have liked Bury at home.

Not quite. Bury away it would be!

Meanwhile it would be back to the league on Saturday. Having knocked Villa out of the cup, it would be their rivals, Birmingham (away) next.

The Programme